Is it worth training to increase cadence?

[GrasB]

it's bad that i don't understand any of that, isn't it?

Depends on your goals & what you want to know.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

That isn't a table of single data points, that's a table of aggregated data. If I was to plot the rpm v's number of occurrences for 150w you'd see something similar to a standard distribution bell curve with the peek close to 97rpm. So yes there are some cases of me being up at well past 150rpm & also well bellow 50rpm but the bulk of the data points will be in the 85-105rpm area.

I think I gathered that, I haven't found a way of producing a table of power output.
I can see from my data, if the ride was difficult and other data i.e. speed cad ect, and I can see improvements in what I can climb and at what sort of avg speeds both over the preceding 7 or 30 days ect and on a weekly monthly bases, i can see how cadence effects gear length along with speed, I didn't really mean to get this involved really, I started just to get fit enough to take my camera out, know roughly how long it would take me to get from A-B averaging 14-15mph 15 was my target, if I had stayed on the same sort of rides i started on I would probably be doing 15-16mph avg with a cadence of maybe 90, but that was just flat rides, and i wanted to go further, so I started doing more hills, and got better, my cadence went down so did my speed, but it's increased slowly these last 3 months, and now there isn't anything around here I dread (unlike when i started) cadence has gone up as, as the gear length and speed, nothing to shoot about, but it's about what i wanted, the next thing is to do that with a little more weight (i.e. the camera kit).

 

[jazzkat]

The theory is that by increasing the cadence you move the 'load' from your legs to your heart and lungs. The physical aspect of spinning isn't too difficult to learn/get used to, although at higher speeds (above 100 rpm) you might find yourself bouncing in the saddle.

I found my general cycling performance and speed improved after spending a winter on the turbo practising higher cadence speeds. Having said all that cadence is very personal and while I can now spin away at over 100 rpm sometimes I find sometimes I can go better and faster pushing at 80 rpm in a higher gear.

All that sounds a bit contrary, but I would definitely work on speeding up your cadence. Your, already strong legs, will be a great asset once you get them spinning

 

[GrasB]

Thanks for your comments. I did a 15 mile ride today with an average cadence of 81 rpm. Focusing on cadence will, I'm sure help me improve.

I agree with the later posts around power and gears. However, the other factor is weight. I am relatively strong. My legs are very strong as such I can produce the power. My challenge is that at 21st there is a lot of weight to move. I have 20inch calfs and that is all muscle. Lots of fat in other areas but my legs have got very big since I started riding regularly in October. In the last 5 months I have ridden 1,500 miles.

I'm not the typical cyclist but I am improving and losing weight. I've ridden up to 50 miles and know that I will do the London100 within the time limit. Through the winter I have just focused on riding the bike. I now need to train properly, hence my question on cadence.

Part of what will be holding your cadence down is your excess body fat, even if it's not on your legs. Cycling requires you to balance the force being applied to the pedals with your upper body, any mass which isn't muscle will slow your cadence as it will take a longer time for the counter balance of your leg force to reach equilibrium. You can see this at work when Wiggins rides a TT bike, look at is trunk curving from one side to another as he rides.

 

[GrasB]

I think I gathered that, I haven't found a way of producing a table of power output.

It's not simple, most analytical training programs aren't set up to do this. However, as I my job is IT support for people who do this all the time I get very good at it. Golden Cheetah is a nice place to start along with a good grounding in excel spreadsheet programming/formulae.

 

[kedab]

i look at the data from my garmin and look at average speed, highest speed, distance and time taken...the rest looks good on the graphs but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. my mind never has worked well with figures.

 

[GrasB]

i look at the data from my garmin and look at average speed, highest speed, distance and time taken...the rest looks good on the graphs but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. my mind never has worked well with figures.

That's because it's probably all based on speed & thus doesn't make sense. Speed is a very indirect measure of what you should be looking at, power. Unfortunately power measurement is still rather expensive to do, speed however is nice & easy. You'll may notice that unless I start talking about drag I'll tend not to mention speed.

 

[kedab]

That's because it's probably all based on speed & thus doesn't make sense. Speed is a very indirect measure of what you should be looking at, power. Unfortunately power measurement is still rather expensive to do, speed however is nice & easy.

aye - i have a HRM and a cadence sensor - i do love gadgets - and while I can understand the very basic principles of why A+B will = C, unless it's actually shown to me, i get a brain cramp and can't work it out i'll figure it out eventually and to be fair, i'm in no danger of actually needing to know how it all works to improve my riding, it'd just be nice.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

It's not simple, most analytical training programs aren't set up to do this. However, as I my job is IT support for people who do this all the time I get very good at it. Golden Cheetah is a nice place to start along with a good grounding in excel spreadsheet programming/formulae.

I can do a little in excel, but only pretty basic stuff, I gave up programming when windows started to take over, just couldn't get my head round V.B. or V.C. at the time. I have managed to create a running 7day 14day ect sheet and 30 and 60 ect days but it's a little cumbersome really, but it works, though since I have only had the hrm and cadence monitor since xmas/new year I cant comment on other than avg cadence beyond that and no heart rate data at all.
I will have anothe look at golden cheetah but I think it has a limited usage policy for non registered users (though i may be wrong), i do have sporttracks, but fully utilise it

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Not quite true, as you become fitter, you can push bigger gears at a faster rate for longer, and the more you do it the fitter you become and hence push bigger gears long at a faster rate, to a point.

^^ This. The stronger you get the more power you produce. The more power you produce the faster you spin the pedals, the more force you apply to the pedals & the higher the gear you run.

I've seen this in myself. I've always had a cadence lower than most, and over the years my quadriceps have become overdeveloped. After trying hard to use lower gear ratios the last few years, my calves are starting to catch up. Doing a lot of hill-climbing helps, too. When I approach a hill, and change down a few gears, my cadence temporarily increases, until the hill steepens, then it drops again. Then when I reach the summit of a hill, I can practise the higher cadence going down the other side. Having stronger quadriceps definitely helps me on the hill-climbing, though, because I can keep that up indefinitely.

 

[festival]

Not quite true, as you become fitter, you can push bigger gears at a faster rate for longer, and the more you do it the fitter you become and hence push bigger gears long at a faster rate, to a point.

And that, my friend is how not to do it!

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Not quite true, as you become fitter, you can push bigger gears at a faster rate for longer, and the more you do it the fitter you become and hence push bigger gears long at a faster rate, to a point.

And that, my friend is how not to do it!

Would you mind explaining that response, festival? Not trying to be rude, I just don't understand your comment .

 

[festival]

Some people don't get it, mashing a big gear constantly will build strength but higher pedaling speed is more economical, burns fat and preserves glycogen leading to a more explosive kick.
Cadence of around 90 to 100 rpm is optimum for road cyclists including recreational cyclists to ensure they ride as efficiently as possible. Low cadence in a big gear has its place in a training regime but while only pushing a big gear will make you stronger cycling is primarily an aerobic sport not just about leg strength.
Eddy Merckx said "you won't spin big gears when you need too if you you can't spin small gears first."
But its not easy and takes time to train your body to do this, maybe that's why many don't do it.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

Some people don't get it, mashing a big gear constantly will build strength but higher pedaling speed is more economical, burns fat and preserves glycogen leading to a more explosive kick.
Cadence of around 90 to 100 rpm is optimum for road cyclists including recreational cyclists to ensure they ride as efficiently as possible. Low cadence in a big gear has its place in a training regime but while only pushing a big gear will make you stronger cycling is primarily an aerobic sport not just about leg strength.
Eddy Merckx said "you won't spin big gears when you need too if you you can't spin small gears first."
But its not easy and takes time to train your body to do this, maybe that's why many don't do it.

You missed the point that you can not that you have too, as you point out it has it place in training, which is what I have been working on in this colder weather.
Today I managed to average 92rpm over 10 miles, the first time I have done that, I could manage 85rpm last Sept but I wasn't getting any good on hills, so I started doing some, both my climbing strength and stamina have increased, but above all, I can spin in higher gears than I could last year, in fact I have increased the gearing on the bike from 48/13 to 48/11 and the other end from 26/34 to 26/24 my chainset is 26/38/48 and cassette is 24/21/19/17/15/13/11, this gives it a better range than the 52/40/30 rear 26/13 it original had.

 

[GrasB]

Arrggs!.. If you're going to try & explain this stuff can you at least do it properly.

Some people don't get it, mashing a big gear constantly will build strength but higher pedaling speed is more less economical (spinning at high rpm requires the rider to produce more power which doesn't make it into the pedals). However, burns fat and preserves glycogen it increases the amount of fat used to produce ATP & doesn't require as much oxygen leading to a more explosive kick deeper ATP reserve & higher aerobic power threshold.

Cadence of around 90 to 100 rpm is optimum for a significant minority road cyclists including recreational cyclists when producing a high % of their maximal effort for the duration of their ride to ensure they ride as efficiently as possible long as possible with minimal fatigue.

Eddy Merckx said "you won't spin big gears when you need too if you you can't spin small gears first." Which is some what correct in that riders who over gear to try & increase speed will tend to produce less power. However it has been demonstrated repeatedly that given the same conditions riders naturally raise their leg speed with pedal pressure when trying to produce more power.
But its not easy and takes time to train your body to do this, if possible for an athlete's natural given muscular make up, maybe that's why many don't do it.