Is carbon really that good?

[weepiglet]

Thanks gavintc, I was told that the vibration side is greatly reduced but I think I will me able to suffer a but of shake rather than paying silly money for something that I dont think I will get the benefit of. It will also leave me more cash so I can buy some more beer at the weekends!!

 

[fossyant]

The Plant X bikes come in well recommended for the money.

Ultegra has gone up like all the other stuff - check some of the prices due to the poor exchange rate..... E.g. Got XT SPD pedals 4 months ago for about £45, they are mainly sold now for £60 plus.....crazy, although if you look hard, you can get it cheaper.

 

[yenrod]

Bl00dY hell...£900 for Ultegra....how can they justify that? As I am new to all this roadie stuff there has t be something that makes it really stand out but surely there can't be such a huge difference between the current Ultegra stuff or even Dura Ace or SRAM kit. Can you not get a top notch system for about £300 nowadays?

No.

What I am saying is there is a noticeable difference between groupsets. Bonj has always stated that no-one can tell the difference, and that the only real difference is that one costs more. well its not true, Dura ace is a world apart from Sora.
As you go up the ranges, the level of shifting improves, the weight goes down, the bearings/seals improve. Anyone who thinks that components do not improve as you move up the range, really has no idea what they are talking about.

Tiagra is fine, and used by many, but 105 is better. ultegra is better than 105. And guess what?, Dura ace is the best in the shimano range!!

See your point Steve - like a realise that the seals are gonna be far better: looking closely at the hubs on my wheels (and they arent much - but they aint gone outta true [yet]

In my experience of STi's - when they by and large came out the movement by wheich you had to move the lever was'nt much BUT ive noticed on the Tiagra stuff ive now got its more movement for a shift. YET they now say the movement for the shift for a Dura-Ace lever is isnt as far. Shimano yet again playing stupid or reckoning that we are STUPID.

Their was a time when Shimano (spit) said to the american MTB manufacturers: you have to use ALL our components so they boycotted them - went to Suntour and the likes SURPRISE SURPRISE they changed their mind - wonder why !

And as for the chain debacle: shimano brought a chain out said it was narrow YET everyone i knew was on a sedis which was far narrower AND worked fine over their gears

Then, when the FINALLY re-designed the chain (as the said) the new supper duper mega-narrow chain = was the same width as sedi's.

What a piss-take.

This all seems a bit like when larncearmstrong tries to plead the innocence when he says he's neve taken drugs in his whole racing life :?:

 

[Randochap]

Campagnolo.

 

[yello]

Ah yes, but is Record really that much better than Veloce?

 

[dellzeqq]

carbon gets (relatively) better the longer you ride - 100 miles on an aluminium bike is tough, 120 is grim.

 

[weepiglet]

No.

Shimano (spit)

This all seems a bit like when larncearmstrong tries to plead the innocence when he says he's neve taken drugs in his whole racing life

I appreciate that people are always going to have their favourites and people will prefer campag over shimano although coming from an mtb background, the shimano kit was always preferred by everyone I rode with. Now i'm venturing into road side, I think I want to stick to shimano, simply because of experience so would rather get a bike with this kit over teh campag stuff.

However, can someone please (in 50 words) tell me why campag is better.....in their opinion?

Also, with regards to Armstrong, I don't think it's fair to assume anything, he is one of the, if not the greatest rider of my time and I feel innocent until proven guilty.

 

[gbb]

If it were my choice, i wouldnt buy the CR1...why ?...cos its got just about the cheapest budget Shimano wheels you can (or could) buy.

I got a pair of 500's (Tiagra), they were £68 a pair just over a year ago. They're fine on a commuter or hack....but i would not spend £1300 on a bike to have them on...they flex too much. They flex worse then the undbranded wheels on my £250 Raleigh thats 6 years old (actually, they dont flex noticeably at all).

Wheels that were £68 on a bike worth £1300...no way..i couldnt do it.

 

[oxbob]

"However, can someone please (in 50 words) tell me why campag is better.....in their opinion?" It is not better, it has more heritage (i use both)

 

[Fab Foodie]

carbon gets (relatively) better the longer you ride - 100 miles on an aluminium bike is tough, 120 is grim.

That's a fairly sweeping statement for you dellzeqq

My triple-butted Aluminium TCR1 is very comfortable for 100 miles and I see no reason why it would still not be as comfortable after 200 miles.
My previous Nivachrome Omega would have shaken you sensless after 50 miles and my 531mtb removed your fillings by 30 miles. I have ridden some harsh an unpleasant Aluminium bikes as well, but they are not all tarred with the same brush... my darling 531 plain guage Holdsworth is/was a magic carpet...

 

[bonj2]

What I am saying is there is a noticeable difference between groupsets. Bonj has always stated that no-one can tell the difference, and that the only real difference is that one costs more. well its not true, Dura ace is a world apart from Sora.
As you go up the ranges, the level of shifting improves, the weight goes down, the bearings/seals improve. Anyone who thinks that components do not improve as you move up the range, really has no idea what they are talking about.

Tiagra is fine, and used by many, but 105 is better. ultegra is better than 105. And guess what?, Dura ace is the best in the shimano range!!

i think it's that as you go up the range the bearings/seals improve, so therefore the shifting should improve, but whether it's noticeable or not is what's debatable.
also Dura ace is obviously a world apart from sora as sora has those funny thumb levers, but tiagra doesn't.
I do agree dura ace and ultegra look nicer as they seem to have a nicer finish.
Personally i've got 105 9sp shifters that are about just over a year old paired with a ultegra mech and couldn't wish for better shifting.

 

[bonj2]

Bl00dY hell...£900 for Ultegra....how can they justify that? As I am new to all this roadie stuff there has t be something that makes it really stand out but surely there can't be such a huge difference between the current Ultegra stuff or even Dura Ace or SRAM kit. Can you not get a top notch system for about £300 nowadays?

I had a go with the sram shifters on a bike on a turbo in the LBS and they seem to work really well. The brake lever itself only operates the brake - it's just the one lever that on a standard shifter just operates the up shift, but on SRAM it does both, you push it far for a downshift and click it just a bit for an upshift. Until you've tried it you wonder why it doesn't up shift first when you want to downshift but it just doesn't, it feels quite intuitive when you try it. I'd definitely consider it if i was getting a new bike.

 

[weepiglet]

If it were my choice, i wouldnt buy the CR1...why ?...cos its got just about the cheapest budget Shimano wheels you can (or could) buy.

I got a pair of 500's (Tiagra), they were £68 a pair just over a year ago. They're fine on a commuter or hack....but i would not spend £1300 on a bike to have them on...they flex too much. They flex worse then the undbranded wheels on my £250 Raleigh thats 6 years old (actually, they dont flex noticeably at all).

Wheels that were £68 on a bike worth £1300...no way..i couldnt do it.

The spec for the bike which after calling can now be had for £1100 is actually;

Weight - 8,30 kg
Frame - Scott CR 1 HMF CR 1 Carbon technology Road geometry Integrated Headtube
Fork - Scott Carbone CR1 Pro 1 1/8 "" Carbone steerer Integrated
Headset - Integrated Cartridge
Derailleur (Rear) - Shimano 105 RD-5600 20 Speed
Derailleur (Front) - Shimano 105 FD-5600
Shifters - Shimano 105 ST-5600-C Dual control 20 Speed
Brakes - Shimano 105 BR-5600 Super SLR Dual pivot
Crankset - Shimano 105 FC-5600 Hollowtech II 39/53 T
BB-Set - Shimano 105 SM - FC 5600
Handlebar - Scott Road Drop OS Anatomic 31.8 mm
H'stem - Scott Road Team OS 1-1/8"" / four Bolt 31.8 mm
Seatpost - Carbon Pro 31.6mm
Seat - Scott Road Pro
Hub (Front) - Mavic Aksium Black
Hub (Rear) - Mavic Aksium Black
Chain - Shimano 105 CN-5600
Cassette - Shimano 105 CS-5600 12-25 T
Spokes - Mavic Aksium Black
Rims - Mavic Aksium Black 20 Front / 24 Rear
Tires - Hutchinson Equinox FOLD 700 x 23

OK, I have just found out it is the 2008 model but seems even better to me!!

 

[ed_o_brain]

I quite like the look of the Focus Cayo 105 and at just under £1,000 it looks like great value.

Other than pootling around on short journey's, I've done my share of riding on Aluminium framed road bikes.

I'd consider any other material (Steel, Ti, CF) depending on what the bike was going to be used for.

 

[Watt-O]

Deliberations

I quite like the look of the Focus Cayo 105 and at just under £1,000 it looks like great value.

Other than pootling around on short journey's, I've done my share of riding on Aluminium framed road bikes.

I'd consider any other material (Steel, Ti, CF) depending on what the bike was going to be used for.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Focus_Cayo_105_2009/5360037591/

Think I'll go for this after considering the Cube Agree GTR Pro, Felt Z45, Bianchi 928 et al for months now. The Cayo looks like a great bike and such good value. Wiggle take paypal - only a couple of clicks away!