Is black cycling gear dangerous?

[Pat "5mph"]

Just to lower the tone of the thread...

Nooooo Wayyyyyyyyyy!!!!!! ( No wonder you have to sleep on the bikes ....)

 

[Recycler]

The problem is the "victim blaming" that is endemic in road safety.

A cyclist (or pedestrian) gets hit and it is not the rresponsibility of the driver to look, but the victim to be seen!

A cyclist (or pedestrian) gets hit, and it is their responsibility to reduce the level of injury incurred!

When the evidence is unequivocal that drivers are failing to take basic measures, and then when they do failing to act appropriately on the information, surely we should be spending the money on driver education rather than a piece of cloth that will probably make no difference whatsoever

I don't think that anyone here is saying that it is the responsibility of cyclists to prevent themselves from being run over.

However, drivers do make mistakes. It is part of the human condition that we get things wrong....and no amount of "education" will eliminate human error. For that matter, cyclists also get things wrong and a very high proportion of hospital admissions are for accidents where no car was involved.

I also doubt that many drivers really don't care. I suspect that the vast majority would be very upset if they ran anyone over.

Nobody is saying that improved visibility will prevent all Smidsy's either.
But if it helps to reduce some accidents?

 

[Accy cyclist]

I've read all the arguments for against and not too sure, about black. I still think, and probably always will that you are much more visible to lorries, cars and wagons etc if you're in bright clothing rather than wearing black.
If black is "so cool" how come it's never seen in "The world's biggest bike race"?

 

[ufkacbln]

If black is "so cool" how come it's never seen in "The world's biggest bike race"?

Let's think about that one......

Advertising perhaps?

 

[lulubel]

Since it's summer, I often ride in a strappy black top, and a very short pair of black, lightweight tri shorts.

Not only do I find that drivers notice me, I also find that they pass me very slowly. It's lovely

 

[Banjo]

Riding in the brecon Beacons on a drizzly day with 2 mates one in black one had an orange waterproof top. They got ahead of me and I could still see the orange top long after the black gear was invisible.

 

[Recycler]

I could still see the orange top long after the black gear was invisible.

+1 Exactly.

We've all seen the evidence with our own eyes and some of the reasons for given against the use of Hi Viz are a bit contrived.
Hi Viz is more visible than dull/dark colours. If people don't want to use it because of style/fashion/vanity etc. etc. then fine, but to pretend that it has no place in our safety aresenal seems to be more an act of denial than objective reasoning. It's true that it some, probably rare, daytime occasions other colours may be better but, overall, Hi Viz improves conspicuity.

 

[Boris Bajic]

+1 Exactly.

We've all seen the evidence with our own eyes and some of the reasons for given against the use of Hi Viz are a bit contrived.
Hi Viz is more visible than dull/dark colours. If people don't want to use it because of style/fashion/vanity etc. etc. then fine, but to pretend that it has no place in our safety aresenal seems to be more an act of denial than objective reasoning. It's true that it some, probably rare, daytime occasions other colours may be better but, overall, Hi Viz improves conspicuity.

The above post wins the argument for the following reasons:

1. The views expressed are broadly in line with mine.

2. It includes the word 'conspicuity' in an online-forum debate.

(This with the caveat that in bright, snowy conditions, dark colours can be helpful - with the further caveat that this was not a good thing for Penal Battalions of the Red Army in the forties, where conspicuity was not conducive to longevity).

 

[smutchin]

Riding in the brecon Beacons on a drizzly day with 2 mates one in black one had an orange waterproof top. They got ahead of me and I could still see the orange top long after the black gear was invisible.

How on earth did you manage to avoid knocking the ones in black off their bikes?

We've all seen the evidence with our own eyes

That's not evidence, it's anecdote.

d.

 

[Blurb]

That's not evidence, it's anecdote.

d.

Empirical\anecdotal evidence is evidence wouldn't you agree? It may possibly be more open to error than proper scientific study, but that's no reason to discount it completely.

 

[Recycler]

That's not evidence, it's anecdote.d.

Of course it's anecdotal. That's why I said the "evidence of our own eyes".
The amusing thing is that every " anti" Hi Viz comment on this thread has also been anecdotal but you havn't felt felt the need to mention that.

Can you really deny that Hi Viz is not more visible in daylight conditions? What non-anecdotal evidence do you have?

 

[Recycler]

2. It includes the word 'conspicuity' in an online-forum debate.

Forgive me Boris for I have sinned.

My excuse is that it was an everyday word in my job when I worked for a road marking company. The link between road safety and conspicuity (Damm, slipped again ) is so widely accepted that I am surprised when I see people arguing against it.

 

[oldroadman]

No colour is of itself "dangerous". Some are simply more easily seen than others. Cycling is not a "dangerous" activity, although some of the antics by "cyclists" are an invitation to get hurt.
Conclusion, you takes your choice, and behave sensibly, then fate takes over.
Personally the only black I wear is shorts or leg warmers/tights, just simply because no club or team I ever rode with had black as a colour, and so there is a good deal of kit in various colours still kicking around in the cupboard.

 

[ufkacbln]

Anecdata is simply not evidence in any form.

I know several people whose "experience" is that cyclists slow them up, the activity is dangerous as cyclists are not protected and they should not be on the roads...
Is that equally valid "anecdote" evidence that we should not be cycling on roads?

 

[ufkacbln]

Of course it's anecdotal. That's why I said the "evidence of our own eyes".
The amusing thing is that every " anti" Hi Viz comment on this thread has also been anecdotal but you havn't felt felt the need to mention that.

Can you really deny that Hi Viz is not more visible in daylight conditions? What non-anecdotal evidence do you have?

The problem is not whether HiViz works or not, simply the way it is promoted s an alternative to real road safety measures.

In any other form of Health and Safety assessment there is a hierarchy of controls and PPE (such as HiViz) should be a last resort.

Instead we have it as the primary response.

As proven so many times, it is the lack of observation by drivers and the inability / unwillingness to act on the information that is the issue.