Indexing

[Marin Maniac]

I've never been happy with the way my Boardman shifts at the rear mech and have been fiddling with it constantly for the last few weeks trying to get a good shift across the 9 speed cassette.

After my ride this morning I fiddled some more and on the way to the bike shop to get the rear gear cable replaced (to rule that out!) it was shifting perfectly. To get it shifting as good as I did this morning I basically elimated as much as the noise (chain rubbing on sprockets) as I could.

Anyway had the cable replaced today with new outers and although its shifting pretty well, when I got home I put the bike on the hooks and noticed there was a lot of noise across all the sprockets on the cassette.

Is this normal and has anyone got any tips for indexing a 9 speed road cassette with Tiagra shifters? I've basically adopted the Park Tool guide with the addition of listening out for chain noise rubbing on other sprockets. I have replaced my chain recently with a Sram PC951 and didn't replace the cassette as LBS said it didn't need replacing.

I did see a good You Tube vid where the guy started of on the smallest sprocket, completed a shift at the lever and increased the tension on the cable till the chain shifted to the next sprocket.

Anyone got any tips for super smooth shifting?

 

[killiekosmos]

Is this the video? http://bikehacks.com/shimano-gear-adjustment-video-tutorial/

I've got Tiagra 9speed on my SCR2.0

Occasionally I put it on the stand, check the outer and inner limit screws and then go through the procedure of adjusting cable tension until changes are smooth.

If the settings seem to go 'off' so easily, is there something loose which causes this? Or is new cable stretching?

 

[Marin Maniac]

Yeah I've seen that vid. Its certainly one of the better ones out there. I found its a good starting point but not a complete solution for me. I found after applying the principles in the vid, my gears still needed some fine tuning.

Am I expecting too much from Tiagra shifters?

 

[itboffin]

You normally shouldn't need to touch the high/low screws however over time your cables will stretch a little and the slack should/can be taken with your barrel adjusters which can usually be found at the rear mech and on your down tube. stick you bike in a stand or wall rack if available, shift down to the smallest ring in the front and at the rear, turn the pedals whilst shifting up to the next big sprocket, this should happen smoothly and fairly quickly, go up and down a few times both ways should be quick and quiet, if shifting up is slow or noisy slowly turn the barrel adjuster until the movement is smooth, it takes a little trial and error but persevere.

Park tools has a much better explanation, but generally you don't need to mess with the high/low screws

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=64

 

[Marin Maniac]

You normally shouldn't need to touch the high/low screws however over time your cables will stretch a little and the slack should/can be taken with your barrel adjusters which can usually be found at the rear mech and on your down tube. stick you bike in a stand or wall rack if available, shift down to the smallest ring in the front and at the rear, turn the pedals whilst shifting up to the next big sprocket, this should happen smoothly and fairly quickly, go up and down a few times both ways should be quick and quiet, if shifting up is slow or noisy slowly turn the barrel adjuster until the movement is smooth, it takes a little trial and error but persevere.

Park tools has a much better explanation, but generally you don't need to mess with the high/low screws

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=64

Ah so you use the small chain ring at the front! I've been using the big ring (compact).

The weird thing is the LBS set this up for me today and although shifting is nearly there, when I got the bike home and put it on the rack the chain was very noisey on most of the sprockets as though the chain was rubbing on another sprocket, but out on the road its quiet.

I've seen some other posts on CC about indexing from the middle of the cassette which makes sense to me. How would you go about indexing from the middle?

 

[itboffin]

I've seen something similar, drop down to the 2nd smallest rear sprocket and do the same exercise, I have perfect shifting on all of my bikes although my main road bike still seems noisy to me in the rear largest to front smallest crossover gear.

I've also noticed that the two Shimano 105 12-25t cassette I use have slightly different sized spacer.

 

[Marin Maniac]

Just been out for a ride this morning and I wasn't happy with the way the gears were shifting. I got the bike home put it up on the rack and I wouldn't say that while on the rack the shifts are particularly quiet, however while out on the road they seem much quieter?!

I checked the H-L limits and to my eye they seemed to be a bit out. Ilined up the jockey wheels so were directly under the biggest and smallest sprocket. Then tighten cable tension so it shifts as well as can be in the smallest chain ring and upper half of the cassette and biggest chainring on lowest half of the cassette.

The B tension screw is nearlt unscrewed all the way out (least tension) and checked that the jockey wheels do not touch the sprockets (they don't).

I think my next bike is going to have Ultegra as I've got a mate who's got thay on his Trek and it is smooth, positive and quiet. He even oils his chain with WD 40!

 

[jpembroke]

Once you've set the limit screws - which it sounds like you've done correctly - then shift to a middle sprocket (4th or 5th) and adjust using the barrel adjuster. Also, check that chain is the correct length. Put it on biggest chainring and largest sprocket ('illegal' gear, I know) and the rear mech arm should be at about 45 degrees. A chain that is too long or too short will affect shifting. There's no reason why you shouldn't get smooth shifting with Tiagra shifters so keep trying. Oh, and make sure the chain is well lubricated with a proper chain oil - e.g. Finish Line.

Also - and I'm always banging on about this one - make sure you have connected the cable correctly at the rear mech clamp bolt. If you have clamped it the wrong side of the bolt then that can have a significant affect on shifting. It changes the amount of leverage or cable pull or something - a useful workaround if you are trying to mate up Campag and shimano parts but not what you want with a purely Shimano drivetrain.

 

[Marin Maniac]

Once you've set the limit screws - which it sounds like you've done correctly - then shift to a middle sprocket (4th or 5th) and adjust using the barrel adjuster - Can you confirm what you mean by adjusting? I've so far had the chain on smallest sprocket and largest chain ring, clicked shifter and tensioned cable till chain shifts on to next smallest sprocket. I tried the middle sprocket thing but couldn't really work out the crack!

Also, check that chain is the correct length. Put it on biggest chainring and largest sprocket ('illegal' gear, I know) and the rear mech arm should be at about 45 degrees. A chain that is too long or too short will affect shifting. - Chain length looks good. Its about 45 degrees in big/big and smallest/smallest its just tight enough as not not slap the mech cage. I have changed the chain recently (SRAM PC951).

There's no reason why you shouldn't get smooth shifting with Tiagra shifters so keep trying. Oh, and make sure the chain is well lubricated with a proper chain oil - e.g. Finish Line. - I've just started using dry lube. Surely that would have that much of a difference to wet lube would it?

Also - and I'm always banging on about this one - make sure you have connected the cable correctly at the rear mech clamp bolt. If you have clamped it the wrong side of the bolt then that can have a significant affect on shifting. It changes the amount of leverage or cable pull or something - a useful workaround if you are trying to mate up Campag and shimano parts but not what you want with a purely Shimano drivetrain.

- The cable is deffo connected correctly (in the grove)

 

[John the Monkey]

If you've not already, have a look at Shimano's support site, and the technical documents for your shifters and derailleur. Tiagra isn't top of the tree by any means, but it doesn't run particularly noisily in my experience.

 

[jpembroke]

OK, sounds like you've done everything correctly. And no, dry lube won't make any difference to wet lube, but it will make a difference over GT85 or WD40, which is not really a suitable chain lube.

On the subject of adjusting, I tend to first put chain on smaller chainring at the front then put it in to highest gear (smallest sprocket) at the back and set the 'High' limit screw so the upper jockey wheel sits below that sprocket. Then shift down to the largest cassette sprocket and do the same with the 'Low' limit screw.

Then shift up 4 clicks and twiddle the barrel adjuster until the jockey wheel sits below the appropriate sprocket (i.e. 5th). That it's really - certainly all I do. Not sure why it's recommended that you adjust in a middle sprocket but I read it somewhere once (maybe park tools), have done that ever since and it seems to work.

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[Marin Maniac]

After some more fiddling it looks like that the cable housing which goes into the rear mech looks like its been cut too short. When I hook the cable housing under the quick release end pushing the mech closer to the sprockets, it shifts much better. When I un hook it it shifts poorly!

 

[jpembroke]

After some more fiddling it looks like that the cable housing which goes into the rear mech looks like its been cut too short. When I hook the cable housing under the quick release end pushing the mech closer to the sprockets, it shifts much better. When I un hook it it shifts poorly!

Ah, good point, that may be the answer. Replace the cable housing with a new, longer piece and see if that improves things. You will probably need to replace the cable too as it will probably be too short once you've done that.

 

[Marin Maniac]

Ah, good point, that may be the answer. Replace the cable housing with a new, longer piece and see if that improves things. You will probably need to replace the cable too as it will probably be too short once you've done that.

Nah theres quite a bit of excess the other side of the clamp, so should be alright!

 

[jpembroke]

cool! hopefully problem solved then.