in praise of USADA

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Orbytal

Active Member
@johnr I would not agree with respect to the oath. The information, I assume, is from SCA case and this was a hearing. SCA had the option to go legal but declined and went for arbitration instead. If you also look for longer excerpts on the deposition as it should be referred to you shall find that it was taken over at least 164 minutes and we are afforded no more than 11 minutes and 13 seconds which is 7%. I have not seen any more than this but would welcome if to view any more if it exists. The difficulty in viewing this format is missing 152 minutes or 93% and suggesting we know the content and context of it.
SCA also contested the case on doping whilst they accepted the contract had NO doping qualifications in it. The whole case was erroneous and they were told this by the hearing panel.

If you add to this BA/FA depositions they over heard a DR say certain things you are left with 2 options, either the DR says he did say these things and goes to jail for breaching patient confidentiality or he says no id did not happen. Is the DR willing to go to jail for them?

EO'R needs 3rd part agreement of everything she says and this is unlikely and if 1 person says she is wrong her deposition is either 50/50 or void.

I may be wrong but my understanding is LA has in fact made no oath under Federal or State Law and therefore if he says nothing he cannot perjure himself and nay attempt now he can plead 5th!

I personally have no issue with anything that has gone on as they ALL doped no question however if you do not take time to remove the flowery language and the wonderful descriptions of TH and FL and JV you would think they have not been serial perjurers or done for fraud!

Scrub the emotive language and look at raw data and can I believe 1 side over the other. When you do this you see why FDA dropped their case.

That does not mean it was not right what has been reported, it is, but you also need to understand that proving it legally would not happen.

It also means that for USPS = every other team at the time. Hype is great and we all enjoy it but we also need to scrub it away to see the facts as they are.

It does however make for great debates and discussion and that is why we love it and put up with it!

 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
JV you would think they have not been serial perjurers or done for fraud!
what are you accusing Vaugjhters of?
 

philipbh

Spectral Cyclist
Location
Out the back
I may be wrong but my understanding is LA has in fact made no oath under Federal or State Law and therefore if he says nothing he cannot perjure himself and nay attempt now he can plead 5th!

If you look at the transcript of Lance Armstrongs deposition the following exchange is recorded fairly early on in the proceedings

Jeffrey Tillotson acting for SCA Promotions asks the questions and LA gives his answers:

Q. You understand that although we're in the conference room of your lawyers, you are giving testimony as if you are in a court of law.
Do you understand that?
A. Correct.
Q. And that penalties of perjury attach to this deposition just like they would to a court of law proceeding.
A. Of course.
 

Orbytal

Active Member
@dellezqq JV gave a signed affidavit to LA and his legal team for the 2005 case that he knew nothing about doping by LA or within USPS. He changed that later but the signed affidavit is in the records.

@philipbh I appreciate what he is saying BUT it was a hearing and not a State or Federal Court or any Legal situation whatsoever. If you do not wish to accept what I am saying I suggest you research it yourself and see for yourself, it has NO legal standing. SCA had the option to go to court. The hearing did not in fact conclude and SCA requested to terminate the hearing and settle outwith it which they did.

SCA brought the case despite the fact there was NO doping clause in the contract, it was show of bravado to see if LA would give in and he did not and that is why SCA settled out of the hearing.

If I was the lawyer I would say the same but it is meaningless.

I would advise that you don’t believe the HYPE attached with this case as it reeks of deceit and irregular practice by WADA/USADA.

This is all a matter of record.

I shall also say before I get anyone wishing to say I am deluded or an LA lover I am not and I have known for years he and all the rest have doped and my issue is how he has been pursued as part of a vendetta between WADA and UCI.

Both organisations are so corrupt it is shameful and none of us can take any of them seriously.



 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
[quote="
I shall also say before I get anyone wishing to say I am deluded or an LA lover I am not and I have known for years he and all the rest have doped and my issue is how he has been pursued as part of a vendetta between WADA and UCI.

Both organisations are so corrupt it is shameful and none of us can take any of them seriously.



[/quote]
What makes you say that WADA is corrupt?
A vendetta? What makes you say that?
The FBI were investigating Armstrong and subsequently USADA took it over after the case was dropped. Neither WADA or the UCI were involved until the eveidence was recently presented in the Reasoned Decision.
 

Orbytal

Active Member
D Pound was seriously reprimanded by IOC for his intervention with French lab forcing them to extract LA samples as part of a supposed group test and also revealed to press about the tests. IOC said if they had jurisdiction over Pound he would have been sacked. His actions contravened WADC rules and basically corrupted the integrity of WADA and their procedures. His actions led to UCI taking Legal action against him.
He was replaced after calls for his head.

UCI and WADA have been at war for years and it is shameful. Look at Vrijam report.
 

DogTired

Über Member
D Pound was seriously reprimanded by IOC for his intervention with French lab forcing them to extract LA samples as part of a supposed group test and also revealed to press about the tests. IOC said if they had jurisdiction over Pound he would have been sacked. His actions contravened WADC rules and basically corrupted the integrity of WADA and their procedures. His actions led to UCI taking Legal action against him.
He was replaced after calls for his head.

UCI and WADA have been at war for years and it is shameful. Look at Vrijam report.

Could you please supply some references for :
  • D Pound being reprimanded by the IOC.
  • D Pound forcing them to extract LA samples.
  • D Pound revealing to the press about the tests.
  • IOC saying this that they would sack Pound if they could.
  • What actions of D Pound contravened which 'WADC' rules.

I haven't come across this before so it'd be interesting to find out more.
 

Orbytal

Active Member
If you look up the legal issues between Pound and UCI as well as LA letter to IOC. All derived from Vrijam Report. Vrijam was a Dutch lawyer and also former head of Dutch Anti-doping organisation, worked for Pound and WADA.

When you look at everything related to LA and WADA just now reverse that to 2005 and LA/UCI to WADA.

UCI sued Pound after their relationship had failed beyond repair. WADA tried to nail LA in 2005 and found to corrupt their own rules.

If anyone has the question WHY would USADA spend over 3/4 of their budget on chasing 1 retired athlete (not a whole sport!) in 2012 when all the current athletes are preparing for London 2012 it comes from historic vendettas between UCI and WADA. USADA basically ignored their own athletes in 2012 as they prepared for their 1 in 4 years atempt at 1 event to chase 1 retired athlete.

The current USADA case also contravenes WADC rules on a number of levels and reflects the 2005 affair but with a different result.

Anyone who believes this matter is about 1 rider who doped needs to look at the history and determine how they feel. UCI and WADA as far as I am concerned are a disgrace and need reformed.

This whole matter is HYPED up by Tygart as the greatest doping case in history which is the same as his other over HYPED claims. If you want to believe him try and reconcile the East German State System, USSR State System, Romanian State System etc. and add to that the WHOLE history of Cycling and then you start to see what constitutional doping is NOT 1 Team doing the same as every other Team.

This case is born from a vendetta years ago and rolled out like a Hollywood Premier.

Read the title of USADA report and look at the sanctions and then say this was not an orchestrated witch hunt against 1 man to get at 1 organisation.

Sickening for Cycling and sickening for Sport.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
I have 3 choices. I can't decide whether to answer these ludicrous, unsubstantiated claims, let someone else with more time do it or just put Orbytal onto my currently vacant ignore list.
 

DogTired

Über Member
If you look up the legal issues between Pound and UCI as well as LA letter to IOC. All derived from Vrijam Report. Vrijam was a Dutch lawyer and also former head of Dutch Anti-doping organisation, worked for Pound and WADA.

... Other stuff edited out...
Sickening for Cycling and sickening for Sport.

No, I think I asked for some references to your specific points. I'm not looking up stuff for you. Have you confused the following?
  • LAs letter to the IOC about Dick Pound is not the same as the IOC being reprimanded by the IOC. He wasnt reprimanded at all, the IOC merely recommended he use greater prudence during public announcements. Considering the tone of LAs letter DP comments at the time were well restrained.
  • The 'fact' that Vrijman worked for Pound and WADA. Did he really?
  • UCI suing Dick Pound. The UCI tend to sue everyone in the Swiss Courts. A lot of the time. There's a court down the road from the UCI offices that they use. Was it successful?
  • What a witch-hunt is? A witch-hunt randomly accuses a load of people with accusations that can't be denied. This was NOT a witch-hunt. Did you mean a vendetta? Like I've said before, one man's vendetta is another mans' campaign for truth and justice.
So, again, if you could come up with references to the claims you made previously, such as:
  • D Pound being reprimanded by the IOC.
  • D Pound forcing them to extract LA samples.
  • D Pound revealing to the press about the tests.
  • IOC saying this that they would sack Pound if they could.
  • What actions of D Pound contravened which 'WADC' rules.
Then that would be appreciated. After we get through this we can discuss what really has been sickening for cycling. Hanging blood-bags from picture hooks in cheap hotels does it for me.
 
I have 3 choices. I can't decide whether to answer these ludicrous, unsubstantiated claims, let someone else with more time do it or just put Orbytal onto my currently vacant ignore list.
You can leave it to Dog Tired, so option 2. I always admire people who can be bothered to answer this stuff, it's a thankless task, as I seriously doubt it will illicit any kind of sensible response.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
p.s. The Vrijman whitewash report was laughable and has been widely derided. Bringing that up as evidence does Orbytal's wild accusations no good.
 

thom

____
Location
The Borough
You can leave it to Dog Tired, so option 2. I always admire people who can be bothered to answer this stuff, it's a thankless task, as I seriously doubt it will illicit any kind of sensible response.
Afraid after 2 messages, option 3 was chosen !
 
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