In defence of motorists

[mickle]

Hazard perception and forward planning are not the same thing I'm afraid.

Ever tried to do a commentary of what you see as you drive, what might happen and how you plan to cope with the different possibilities? It's called commentary driving and -unfortunately - is no longer "required" on IAM tests at least, although many observers use it to ecourage the sort of attention to detail that is needed.

I'm an IAM associate member (means I've passed the test) and I've been assessed by a different firm who my employers use (voluntarily, i.e. I decided it was time for another independent assessment of my driving) two years ago (when I was told that there was no point critiquing me as he normally would, he'd give criticism as if I were trying for advanced instructor level). Soon I'll be looking into ROSPA advanced training (too busy right now). All this because I believe that anyone in charge of potentially lethal machinery has an obligation to be as well qualified as they are capable of being.

Admirable sentiments Sir. If only there were more on the roads with your attitude. Respect.

 

[cd365]

My driving was tested last year by my company because of their H&S policy which I passed with flying colours.

Maybe I should look at the IAM since it will help with my insurance premiums (which went up 50% with no change in circumstances!). I did take the motorcycle version many years ago.

 

[4F]

My driving was tested last year by my company because of their H&S policy which I passed with flying colours.

Are you a bus driver with Arriva ?

 

[martine]

...I'm an IAM associate member (means I've passed the test) and I've been assessed by a different firm who my employers use (voluntarily, i.e. I decided it was time for another independent assessment of my driving) two years ago (when I was told that there was no point critiquing me as he normally would, he'd give criticism as if I were trying for advanced instructor level). Soon I'll be looking into ROSPA advanced training (too busy right now). All this because I believe that anyone in charge of potentially lethal machinery has an obligation to be as well qualified as they are capable of being.

Hi 'Mad' - not sure I understand your first statement above...'IAM Associates' are preparing for the IAM Advanced Test...when you pass you become a full member. Or perhaps I've misundestood.

Quite agree with your sentiments though..all car drivers (and bikers) should take further training once they've passed their L-test...that's only the start to becoming ever better and yes you're right, no one's a perfect driver (not even me!).

Discussing tricky situations or even mistakes is very healthy in my opinion.

Martin - IAM Senior Observer and DSA: ADI

 

[Rupie]

Well I am new to this CycleChat forum and have just managed to trawl trough this topic. All I can say that I cannot believe some of the comments I have read. Why do all chat posts turn into Over aggressive witch hunts, quoting parts of the Highway code and all judgements being passed with little knowledge but masses of assumption. Its like watching a group of vultures circling a helpless abandoned animal. Irrespective of whoever is right it makes me ashamed to be a cyclist. Mybe the origiator of the topic should have thought more before typing anything I hope you all do not ast as agressivly on the road as you do on the internet.

 

[mickle]

Well I am new to this CycleChat forum and have just managed to trawl trough this topic. All I can say that I cannot believe some of the comments I have read. Why do all chat posts turn into Over aggressive witch hunts, quoting parts of the Highway code and all judgements being passed with little knowledge but masses of assumption. Its like watching a group of vultures circling a helpless abandoned animal. Irrespective of whoever is right it makes me ashamed to be a cyclist. Mybe the origiator of the topic should have thought more before typing anything I hope you all do not ast as agressivly on the road as you do on the internet.

Get a grip. There's nowt wrong with a bit of robust discussion - it's often an effective way of getting to the truth.

And no, not aggressive, assertive. Until they 'cross the line' at which point I destroy them with my handlebar mounted howitzer. And thats not aggression, that's self defence your honour.

 

[Rupie]

Whatever, I'll leave you to all die of heart attacks brought on by stress of the battle for the great cycling God in the sky. You would never talk to each other like this if you were in the same room, unless very drunk.

 

[John the Monkey]

... If more cyclists considered what drivers might do or how they might get it wrong, they could be a lot safer.

Hmm.

I do that all the time, personally, and it's kept me from under the wheels of motor vehicles a few times.

"What if he pulls out of that side road despite my travelling towards him at 20mph?"
"What if that bus tries to beat me around that illegally parked DHL van?"

And so forth. I'd strongly recommend doing other road users' thinking for them whenever you can, as societal attitudes to poor roadcraft seem very unlikely to change any time soon, so lord knows there's no legal punishment of any significance awaiting the impatient, inattentive and inconsiderate - in the case of drivers, the physical danger (vs a pedal cycle) arising from getting things wrong is minimal too.

Should I have to do it? Well no, I'd quite like to potter along the way I did when touring in France & Belgium, reasonably secure in the knowledge that stupid overtaking and lack of consideration for people not in cars was rare, rather than the constant companion that it is when riding in the uk.

Although considerate drivers are getting better (more patient, more room on overtaking, or so it seems, in Manchester at least) the number of texters, mobile users and people who will skim your right elbow at 40mph to reach a red light 5 seconds (or less) ahead of you seems to have grown lately too.

 

[Cubist]

Er, you what?

This may come as a surprise, but in countries other than UK, SA and Japan, people drive on the other side of the road to us. The instructions you read were in English, but not aimed at English children.

 

[Cubist]

Whatever, I'll leave you to all die of heart attacks brought on by stress of the battle for the great cycling God in the sky. You would never talk to each other like this if you were in the same room, unless very drunk.

Have you based you assumption of how CC works based on this thread alone? Have you already left us so soon after your first few posts?

Shame.

 

[GrasB]

Cubist, I think that Dan B is referring to the signal suggested. While that signal maybe a hand signal in some countries I don't see that signal in the highway codes section on Signals to other road users & I think very few road users in the UK would understand that your left arm in an L shape with your fingers pointing upwards means you're turning right.

 

[Cubist]

Cubist, I think that Dan B is referring to the signal suggested. While that signal maybe a hand signal in some countries I don't see that signal in the highway codes section on Signals to other road users & I think very few road users in the UK would understand that your left arm in an L shape with your fingers pointing upwards means you're turning right.

That's what I said! He was expressing surprise that it was a left hand being used to signal right. I was pointing out it was aimed at foreign road users where this signal does mean something.

I hope our OP was being ironic when he posted the link


If you remember, driver's hand signals all have to be done with the right arm here in good old blighty. Turning right, slowing down and turning left all have to be done out of the same window, using the right arm.

 

[Mad at urage]

Hi 'Mad' - not sure I understand your first statement above...'IAM Associates' are preparing for the IAM Advanced Test...when you pass you become a full member. Or perhaps I've misundestood.

Quite agree with your sentiments though..all car drivers (and bikers) should take further training once they've passed their L-test...that's only the start to becoming ever better and yes you're right, no one's a perfect driver (not even me!).

Discussing tricky situations or even mistakes is very healthy in my opinion.

Martin - IAM Senior Observer and DSA: ADI

Then I got the terminology wrong, I have a certificate (and a nice little card saying I passed, signed by Alan Budd), so I must be a full member

 

[Dan B]

That's what I said! He was expressing surprise that it was a left hand being used to signal right. I was pointing out it was aimed at foreign road users where this signal does mean something.

Per Wikipedia, apparently it's recognised in the US and Canada, but not in "foreign" more generally. I don't think it's anything to do with side-of-road

I hope our OP was being ironic when he posted the link

It would be nice to think so, wouldn't it?

If you remember, driver's hand signals all have to be done with the right arm here in good old blighty. Turning right, slowing down and turning left all have to be done out of the same window, using the right arm.

From memory, even then the left turn signal is a rotating thingy not a raised palm

 

[Bman]

Although not friendly, or indeed 100% justified, I can see why some responses seem rude.

There are motorists out there that are seriously lacking in ability (or just lazy, or whatever).

When was the last time you were the victim of, for instance, a poor overtake?

Me: The last time I was on the road, on my bike. In fact, it happens at least once on every commute...

This is why, threads like this, attract the posting styles you see. We are not all stress heads, but when someone trys to justify a driving misjudgement, that endangers an innocent cyclist, it gets our goat (or some of us at least)

Or am I wrong?