Jonathan M
New Member
- Location
- Merseyside
improving immunity
- Thread starter ttcycle
- Start date
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Twenty Inch
Guru
- Location
- Behind a desk
Sitting at home at day 5 of a raging ear infection as a result of the previous flu infection, I was listening to Case Notes on BBC4. There's some very interesting and convincing work being done on using probiotics to boost immunity. Yakult and the like - at one stage the researchers had to go and buy the probiotics from the supermarket. The MD seemed quite sure that advising or prescribing probiotics would become standard practise for people in hospital, on antibiotics or with heightened vulnerability i.e. older, diabetics and so on. Certainly convinced me, I shall be on them as soon as I can bear to get down to the supermarket.
Listen again link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00gd3g1/Case_Notes_Antibiotics/
Listen again link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00gd3g1/Case_Notes_Antibiotics/
Twenty Inch
Guru
- Location
- Behind a desk
Sorry, meant to say "bollocks" as well.
Jonathan M
New Member
- Location
- Merseyside
Sorry, forgot the bollox
Jonathan M
New Member
- Location
- Merseyside
Twenty Inch said:
About 10 years ago I religiosuly drank a Yakult every day. Coincided with a big increase in the riding |I was doing, and significant weight loss, and I've never been able to replicate the same performance since. I've often wondered whether the probiotic had some effect.
You have my sympathy re flu, I had it just before Christmas, I have not been so ill since the last time I had flu 20 years ago.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
I've always dismissed probiotics as marketing and fake medicine, perhaps wrongly. I thought that little if any of the bacteria actually made it past your stomach alive and undigested to the point of uselessness?
My post is not so much about immunity but dealing with the colds you get. You mentioned it earlier, about the 'symptoms' you get pre-cold. A depressed resting heart rate or an elevated HR when riding are all symptoms of an oncoming virus, whereas a depressed riding HR are more likely to be overtraining, so my experiece goes, we are all different. Learn to tune in to what your body is saying. If you are on a training curve, then pushing yourself even slightly too hard may lower your immunity and make you susceptible. If this is a regular pattern, think about changing your training routines and adding more recovery.
You can ride with a cold and this is where a trainer comes in useful, as it allows you to contol and monitor your effort much easier than riding outdoors. It can also supplement having to train outdoors in bad weather. Your susceptibility to colds and their effect on training will improve as you get further up the curve, it just may take you longer to get there.
I must say, I'm no expert, they are just my own obsevations based upon my particular susceptibilty to viruses which also seems to be higher than others, probably due to my various sinus and asthma problems.
Edit: I forgot to ask. Do you have any sinus problems? If for instance you have nasal polyps, something your GP could easily miss, you will be more susceptible (I know).
You can ride with a cold and this is where a trainer comes in useful, as it allows you to contol and monitor your effort much easier than riding outdoors. It can also supplement having to train outdoors in bad weather. Your susceptibility to colds and their effect on training will improve as you get further up the curve, it just may take you longer to get there.
I must say, I'm no expert, they are just my own obsevations based upon my particular susceptibilty to viruses which also seems to be higher than others, probably due to my various sinus and asthma problems.
Edit: I forgot to ask. Do you have any sinus problems? If for instance you have nasal polyps, something your GP could easily miss, you will be more susceptible (I know).
brontesorearse
New Member
According to this months cycling plus the largest immune organ in your body is your stomach, between 70-80 % of all immune cells in you exist there . taking antibiotics and other medications wipes out good and bad bacteria.
So basically probiotic drinks and foods high in fibre are a great way to support the immune system long term.
It also mentions, garlic,zinc,green tea,ironand vit c among a whole host of other ideas.
So basically probiotic drinks and foods high in fibre are a great way to support the immune system long term.
It also mentions, garlic,zinc,green tea,ironand vit c among a whole host of other ideas.
Just further to my sinus question and thinking about your ''cold every few weeks" which just doesn't sound right. If you have polyps you will often get coldlike symptoms i.e. blocked nose, green mucous, stuffy head cold feeling and generally feeling lousy without actually having a cold. If you've any history of allergy or rhinitis this could be worth exploring as a possibility, even if you haven't it's worth a thought. The other thing is, your GP might not be able to see polyps, you might need to see an ENT specialist but your GP should be able to refer you if he has suspicions.
Blonde
New Member
- Location
- Bury, Lancashire
Sorry for the long post, but I hope at least some of it will be relevant: Between 2004 and 2006 I was getting about 8-12 colds a year and also got the flu most years which always wiped me out for a month. In 2006 I began to deteriorate and developed severe fatigue (which my GP put down to post viral fatigue). I had aching limbs and joints, jaundice and stomach cramping and diarrhoea after most meals and snacks. Of course this affected my cycling and audax events. I got slower and slower. I had no energy – I got the “bonk” every two hours (including when I was at work sitting about at my desk - I had to eat every two hours to combat this). I couldn’t do anything else if I had been cycling (i.e. get out of bed the next day, make a drink, go to work etc). My sleep hours began to increase from 8 to 10 to 12 to 14 and sometimes 15 hours a day.
Eventually, after 18 months, a lot of sick days from work, and many blood tests at the GP, I went to a nutritionist. The stress levels I had been experiencing over the past ten years (divorce, moving house, new relationship, new job, unemployment, relationship breakdown, moving house etc) had depressed my immunity. In one year I moved house 4 times, had two significant relationships/breakdowns and three different jobs. I was also a heavy user of antibiotics due to numerous infections each year. I had a poor diet due to low income and debt (which caused more stress). I based most of my meals on cheap white bread with sugary sauces (i.e. beans on toast – a poor meal choice in nutritional terms, but necessary when you are so skint you literally count up your pennies and two Ps to go to Netto) and on cheap white pasta. All of these factors had lowered my immunity.
Cycling 10,000 miles a year plus (and attempting long audax events) on top of this lowered it further still. The stress of no hot water, heating or washing machine wasn’t great to come home to after a long audax on several occasions either!
The way to break the cycle of stress, illness, fatigue and poor performance and begin to recover is usually to rest. This in itself did not stop my fatigue though. I also had to begin a new diet. I cut out all sugars (including fruit) for a while because the nutritionist’s tests had showed Candida infection in the gut and lack of probiotic activity which was giving me diarrhoea. At the same time I took a good high dose probiotic supplement every day as well as a range of other nutritional supplements and began to reduce my other stress levels. Over time the stress subsided anyway, due to much better circumstances but I can recommend using self-help, stress management techniques as well as avoiding people/not having relationships with people who are causing some or all of your stress. I am now more or less fully recovered but it has taken nearly two years after the initial appointment with the nutritionist. Not everyone needs to see a nutritionist of course but it really is worth taking a GOOD multi vitamin and mineral supplement (unless you can’t due to other medication or are pregnant – check what is safe with the chemist). I used BioCare adult multi which seem to have worked but they are very high dose (200% RDA for some vitamins, so please do check with the chemist first) I would strongly urge you to consider what other stresses you have that could be affecting your immunity - even if the stress was weeks or months ago it can effect you for some time aftewards. Tackling stress, as well as addressing poor diet and boosting vitamin and mineral intake and has made the most difference to me. I eat little bread or pasta now – it usually has so little nutrition in it that a meal based around those items doesn’t benefit me. Instead, I eat a lot more vegetables (half or more of my dinner plate is filled with veg, with a quarter protein and a quarter other such as potatoes in their skins). I also eat more good quality protein than I did previously. Even my hair grows now - It’s longer that I have ever managed to grow it without breaking before! One last thing: On top of the usual hand washing etc, I would recommend you also get the flu jab - it’s really worth avoiding that nasty illness. Many chemists now sell the flu jab. I was lucky to get it on the NHS this year – it is worth asking after the flu clinics have just finished at your GPs as they usually have some left over.
Hope this helps,
Eventually, after 18 months, a lot of sick days from work, and many blood tests at the GP, I went to a nutritionist. The stress levels I had been experiencing over the past ten years (divorce, moving house, new relationship, new job, unemployment, relationship breakdown, moving house etc) had depressed my immunity. In one year I moved house 4 times, had two significant relationships/breakdowns and three different jobs. I was also a heavy user of antibiotics due to numerous infections each year. I had a poor diet due to low income and debt (which caused more stress). I based most of my meals on cheap white bread with sugary sauces (i.e. beans on toast – a poor meal choice in nutritional terms, but necessary when you are so skint you literally count up your pennies and two Ps to go to Netto) and on cheap white pasta. All of these factors had lowered my immunity.
Cycling 10,000 miles a year plus (and attempting long audax events) on top of this lowered it further still. The stress of no hot water, heating or washing machine wasn’t great to come home to after a long audax on several occasions either!
The way to break the cycle of stress, illness, fatigue and poor performance and begin to recover is usually to rest. This in itself did not stop my fatigue though. I also had to begin a new diet. I cut out all sugars (including fruit) for a while because the nutritionist’s tests had showed Candida infection in the gut and lack of probiotic activity which was giving me diarrhoea. At the same time I took a good high dose probiotic supplement every day as well as a range of other nutritional supplements and began to reduce my other stress levels. Over time the stress subsided anyway, due to much better circumstances but I can recommend using self-help, stress management techniques as well as avoiding people/not having relationships with people who are causing some or all of your stress. I am now more or less fully recovered but it has taken nearly two years after the initial appointment with the nutritionist. Not everyone needs to see a nutritionist of course but it really is worth taking a GOOD multi vitamin and mineral supplement (unless you can’t due to other medication or are pregnant – check what is safe with the chemist). I used BioCare adult multi which seem to have worked but they are very high dose (200% RDA for some vitamins, so please do check with the chemist first) I would strongly urge you to consider what other stresses you have that could be affecting your immunity - even if the stress was weeks or months ago it can effect you for some time aftewards. Tackling stress, as well as addressing poor diet and boosting vitamin and mineral intake and has made the most difference to me. I eat little bread or pasta now – it usually has so little nutrition in it that a meal based around those items doesn’t benefit me. Instead, I eat a lot more vegetables (half or more of my dinner plate is filled with veg, with a quarter protein and a quarter other such as potatoes in their skins). I also eat more good quality protein than I did previously. Even my hair grows now - It’s longer that I have ever managed to grow it without breaking before! One last thing: On top of the usual hand washing etc, I would recommend you also get the flu jab - it’s really worth avoiding that nasty illness. Many chemists now sell the flu jab. I was lucky to get it on the NHS this year – it is worth asking after the flu clinics have just finished at your GPs as they usually have some left over.
Hope this helps,
Twenty Inch
Guru
- Location
- Behind a desk
Hi Blonde
Good to hear from you again. Plenty of food for thought there, I've had a crappy year in terms of health, with lots of stress and depression in the mix.
Cheers
Good to hear from you again. Plenty of food for thought there, I've had a crappy year in terms of health, with lots of stress and depression in the mix.
Cheers
Blonde
New Member
- Location
- Bury, Lancashire
A major problem for "serious" ameteurs and for professional cyclists and indeed for athletes generally is that doing a lot of exercise (as opposed to some) actually does reduce your immunity. To combat the effects of this we need to take extra care of our health; eating well, avoiding stress and getting enough rest and recovery.
Recovery periods are one essential part of looking after your health, but many people, particularly those who don't have a "training plan", but simply cycle a lot, don't want to be told to rest, or to take time off, so that's where I think having a more structured training programme with peaks and tapers as well as rest days scheduled into it can actually help ensure you do get sufficient recovery. Either that or you need to be more relaxed generally about the whole thing, listen to your body and simply not cycle when you feel tired - but many cyclists just can't do that, so the structured training plan option is probably more useful to them. Some athletes do not see recovery periods as being of equal importance as other parts of their training but they are. Recovery and rest periods need to be part of every cyclists routine and should be viewed not as a passive option; simply being lazy, but as an active, planned and useful part of training or cycling life.
Regarding stress: The effects can't be underestimated. I used to think it was all a mind thing, but it isn't: Heart rate is raised, muscles are contracted, stress hormones are produced which in time can produce unpleasant side effects, including liver problems, when the body can't deal quickly enough with all the chemicals being produced. This will effect your moods and relationships with others, your sleep patterns, your immunity and your on-bike performance.
Recovery periods are one essential part of looking after your health, but many people, particularly those who don't have a "training plan", but simply cycle a lot, don't want to be told to rest, or to take time off, so that's where I think having a more structured training programme with peaks and tapers as well as rest days scheduled into it can actually help ensure you do get sufficient recovery. Either that or you need to be more relaxed generally about the whole thing, listen to your body and simply not cycle when you feel tired - but many cyclists just can't do that, so the structured training plan option is probably more useful to them. Some athletes do not see recovery periods as being of equal importance as other parts of their training but they are. Recovery and rest periods need to be part of every cyclists routine and should be viewed not as a passive option; simply being lazy, but as an active, planned and useful part of training or cycling life.
Regarding stress: The effects can't be underestimated. I used to think it was all a mind thing, but it isn't: Heart rate is raised, muscles are contracted, stress hormones are produced which in time can produce unpleasant side effects, including liver problems, when the body can't deal quickly enough with all the chemicals being produced. This will effect your moods and relationships with others, your sleep patterns, your immunity and your on-bike performance.
summerdays
Cycling in the sun
- Location
- Bristol
Heard something on the radio/tv at the beginning of the year saying that now was not the time of year to diet. Apparently reducing your calorie intake also seems to lower your immunity. It was in a discussion about flu, and they were suggesting that you dieted in the 8 months of the year when flu wasn't around. So it sounds as if nutrition certainly plays a part in your immune system.
OP
OP
ttcycle
Cycling Excusiast
Blonde
Thanks for your comments - I know that stress plays a massive role in immunity. There was a time when there were several stressful things going on and I literally had an 'ongoing' cold where I'd be sick for months and months and keep getting ill continuosly. Perhaps there is a little residual stress from recent events which are now winding down thankfully! Nutrition wise - I eat a very balanced and healthy diet and quite a large amount of food (portions wise and lots of snacks) as I seem to get hungry quite quickly - don't have too much sugar except maybe in fruit and chocolate at times as I find a lot of food 'too sweet'. Have a good multivitamin and have had the flujab through work and I will try out the probiotic. I'm trying to plan out a training plan - that was the intention before I got ill again but I do build in a decent amount of rest days/easy days for recovery.Though reducing stress I think has been an important element. I hope it improves with time!!
Crackle - I don't think I have nasal polyps as don't experience any problems with my sinuses that I've noticed.
Thanks for the feedback Wlc1 - think we've finally found our runner!
Thanks for your comments - I know that stress plays a massive role in immunity. There was a time when there were several stressful things going on and I literally had an 'ongoing' cold where I'd be sick for months and months and keep getting ill continuosly. Perhaps there is a little residual stress from recent events which are now winding down thankfully! Nutrition wise - I eat a very balanced and healthy diet and quite a large amount of food (portions wise and lots of snacks) as I seem to get hungry quite quickly - don't have too much sugar except maybe in fruit and chocolate at times as I find a lot of food 'too sweet'. Have a good multivitamin and have had the flujab through work and I will try out the probiotic. I'm trying to plan out a training plan - that was the intention before I got ill again but I do build in a decent amount of rest days/easy days for recovery.Though reducing stress I think has been an important element. I hope it improves with time!!
Crackle - I don't think I have nasal polyps as don't experience any problems with my sinuses that I've noticed.
Thanks for the feedback Wlc1 - think we've finally found our runner!
