Impatient drivers!

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Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
I'm happy to admit that I'm no expert on the law and there may well be a degree of validity in claiming that it's a reversal of the principles of criminal law. However, we now have inadequate protection for killing or seriously injuring cyclists. I got hit by a vehicle which drove on 2 days ago and I just showed my fury at the next lights because I know that without witnesses that stopped and a low priority in terms of police interest I have no effective defence. In the event, I only got a bruised hand and a scuffed brand new glove, but if something serious had happened to me, I'm not sure the driver would ever get commensurate punishment.
I honestly was not having a dig at you I just did not fully understand what assumed liability meant and had a guess. I am, like a lot of us, both a cyclist and a motorist, and think the standards of some drivers are beyond dangerous.

My apologies if my reply came over as a go at you.
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
I honestly was not having a dig at you I just did not fully understand what assumed liability meant and had a guess. I am, like a lot of us, both a cyclist and a motorist, and think the standards of some drivers are beyond dangerous.

My apologies if my reply came over as a go at you.
Not at all, PS. I only told my tale because it was recent and seemed relevant.
 

Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
Yes,
car/bike interaction. It's presumed car driver.
bike/ped it's presumed bike.
Fair enough, seems a bit harsh but then again it keeps drivers otheir best behaviour I suppose.

Slightly off subject but I am a returnee to cycling after a 40 year break, during my non cycling period I always considered myself a courteous and considerate driver. Since my return to cycling I am not so sure I did take enough care around cyclists and am now even more aware of them and give much more consideration to them.
 

ianrauk

Tattooed Beat Messiah
Location
Rides Ti2
Fair enough, seems a bit harsh but then again it keeps drivers otheir best behaviour I suppose.

Slightly off subject but I am a returnee to cycling after a 40 year break, during my non cycling period I always considered myself a courteous and considerate driver. Since my return to cycling I am not so sure I did take enough care around cyclists and am now even more aware of them and give much more consideration to them.

Not many car drivers do.
 

BigonaBianchi

Yes I can, Yes I am, Yes I did...Repeat.
it is not ludicrous...perhaps if drivers woke up, started driving sensibly and courteously the current laws would suffice...but they wont...so...the only way to get drivers to drive carefully and safely around cyclists is to come down on them heavy handed...like i said ..we should have laws that automatically ensure the driver is at fault in any collission with a bike...then the drivers will stay a safe distance from cyclists and treat them with some respect.

The law in holland is like that i believe...it would get my vote here in the UK.
 

Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
Ok, so at night on an unlit road a cyclist with no lights dressed in black comescout of a side road and is hit by a driver travelling within the speed limit and you would consider the driver at fault.
 

Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
How can we "ensure" the driver is at fault, cyclists must take some responsibility for their own actions surely. For example going up the inside of lorries at junctions and traffic lights.
 

swee'pea99

Legendary Member
How can we "ensure" the driver is at fault, cyclists must take some responsibility for their own actions surely. For example going up the inside of lorries at junctions and traffic lights.
As someone said earlier, a presumption that the driver is at fault does not mean the driver can't argue otherwise - and be acquitted if they succeed. I would have thought "at night on an unlit road a cyclist with no lights dressed in black comes out of a side road and is hit by a driver travelling within the speed limit" would be a good case in point.

But certainly a continental-style law would do a lot to change the mind-set and behaviour of drivers, and would also - laws also do this - lay down the basic values our society recognises as holding good and having value. Such as, you have to look out for others' safety, even if they are on a bicycle.

And you actually provide one very good example of where the practical benefit would become immediately apparent, in lives saved: yes, cyclists should have the sense to not go up the inside of lorries at the lights. But if drivers were held to account, continental style, far fewer 'no-sense-cyclists' would end up getting crushed to death, because drivers would be much more careful about checking their mirrors for numpties before turning hard left when the lights turn green.
 

Primal Scream

Get your rocks off
Tbh I was responding to bianchi who seemed to be saying drivers involved in an accident must be considered to be in the wrong no matter what the circumstances although i may be mistaken in this matter, it would not be the first time.
 

al78

Guru
Location
Horsham
Tbh I was responding to bianchi who seemed to be saying drivers involved in an accident must be considered to be in the wrong no matter what the circumstances although i may be mistaken in this matter, it would not be the first time.

Unfortunately whenever this discussion crops up there seems to be an assumption that "guilt", "blame" and "liability" mean the same thing and can be used interchangeably. They are not the same thing. See here.

One thing that needs to be understood is the difference between civil law and criminal law.
 
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