andy_wrx said:
Jacomus said
so he was talking about wearing hi-viz in daylight...
yes true, sorry i drifted on to using it at night.
andy_wrx said:
I think we need to differentiate between
- high-viz (dayglo yellow, orange, pink, whatever) which is designed to make you more visible in daylight
- reflectives which are designed to reflect headlights at night
well what I use is a jacket which incorporates both of those things, made of 'yellow dayglo' material and with reflective strips which reflect headlights.
andy_wrx said:
[*]lights which will allow you to see or be seen at night or in poor visibility
andy_wrx said:
Wearing simple yellow high-viz won't make you more visible in the pitch dark. It will show-up a bit better in car headlights than black/dark grey/navy blue/etc but it's really designed for daylight use so wearing a yellow jacket without reflectives is great in daylight or poor daytime visibility but probably doesn't achieve a lot at night.
yes, true. it's mainly the reflective strips i wear it for, but it's just a convenient way of wearing them. A sash would probably be almost as good, but more fiddly to put on.
andy_wrx said:
At night, reflectives is rather better but as RPM suggests it won't matter too much if they're on yellow or black clothing.
What they do need to be is proper big reflective patches - those farty little reflective bits most clothing manufacturers put on I can't see being much use at all because they're too small.
they've got to be at least an inch wide imho.
andy_wrx said:
Bonj says
- he wants to be recognised as a cyclist
That's a debateable point - on another thread BentMikey said that's the last thing he wants, he just wants to be seen as 'another vehicle' (I think the phrase was something like that, sorry if not Mikey!).
yes, I'm aware his position goes along those lines. Can see the logic to it, but see my reply to him below.
andy_wrx said:
I can see what he means if cycling in town, where I want to be treated as another vehicle, another part of the traffic, given the same room, etc and not just seen as a bike which can be squeezed into the kerb or pulled-out in front of.
But most of my nighttime cycling is on unlit country lanes or rural derestricted A- & B-roads.
I do want to be seen as a bike. I want some car or lorry coming-up behind me to recognise that I'm a bike doing 20mph compared to their 60 and so they're going to catch me quickly, so they need to be pulling-out to pass me if they can or adjusting their speed to pass me after the oncoming car or bend.
I don't want them seeing a small steady light and assuming I'm something in the distance then suddenly catching me.
So I use 2 lights front & rear, one flashing which says I'm a bike and another steady one which allows distances and speed to be better jusdged from the rear and me to see where I'm going at the front.
As well as relective kit !
same here, that's pretty much exactly my situation and also my perspective on it.
BentMikey said:
Once you have legal reflectors and lights, being seen is about road positioning, not hi-viz. Too many people rely on their spacker jackets and not on riding properly in the first place. Just think back to how many people on here complain about drivers not seeing them when they were all hiviz and lighted up.
I've noticed a decrease in personal incidents since I stopped wearing hiviz, and I'm not the only cyclist to have done the same. Yes, it's only anecdotal.
Target fixation is another good reason not to wear hiviz. Have you seen the size of the hydraulic crash bumpers on the back of motorway sign vehicles? You don't get any more visible than that.
Probably correct, and a great idea,
for your situation, but not everyone's riding is as urban as yours, so needs differ based on circumstances.
In london, they can see the road really well when they're
looking at it, but there's lots of bright lights and things to see to distract drivers' attention so yes like you say the best way to be seen is to be in the correct position. I try to pay attention to this when cycling in the city centre.
But on a rural road, especially when cars coming up behind have got other cars' headlights coming the other way in their field of vision, I want them to know there's a cyclist ahead i.e. me as in advance as possible, which means they can plan ahead for slowing down if necessary and when to overtake in advance, the more in advance they know about me the less likely they are to react dangerously by making a too close overtake to avoid having to slow down sharply. Knowing there's a cyclist ahead in advance involves them (a) knowing that there's something ahead, and (
knowing that it's a cyclist.
BentMikey said:
Hiviz is probably great at making you visible from a very long way away, in the right conditions. That's not very important to cyclists though, you only need to be seen from a relatively short distance away
When traffic is doing 15mph, maybe. When traffic is doing 40-60mph, a short distance represents a much shorter time to make sure they don't overtake dangerously.
BentMikey said:
IMO that's completely the wrong decision. Stupid even. The fluo part of high vis doesn't work at night as it needs UV, and the reflective part only works if the observer has a light very near them and shining towards you. If not, you'd be invisible, unlike with the rear light.
sorry, when I say hiviz i mean reflective, 'cos my high viz vest has also got big reflective strips on it which is why I wear it.
"reflective part only works if the observer has a light very near them"
very crudely speaking, but if at night someone
hasn't got a light near them pointing at you, then chances are they aren't driving towards you.
BentMikey said:
My point being that it's wrong for you to imply that it's irresponsible not to wear hiviz.
I agree with that, I just choose to 'cos I think it makes me safer, based on my experiences as a cyclist and as a driver having seen other cyclists both in reflective high viz jackets and without.
