slowmotion
Quite dreadful
- Location
- lost somewhere
You'll love the smart uniform.
I want to work for DHL
- Thread starter ianrauk
- Start date
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DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
🎼Noddy, the little man in the mainly yellow van🎼 🛺
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Where do they stand regarding the regulations I wonder. Are they legal pedelecs? I imagine they must be because this is all being done by legit companies who presumably have compliance departments, and an inability to run away and hide if the law comes knocking, but maybe that's me being naïve.
They have a "software defined drivetrain" because chains are terribly old hat. What I think this means is that you pedal to activate the motor - as is required for a pedelec, but I'm not sure if you do much else. I don't know if the "software defined drivetrain" actually harnesses any power from you, say by driving a generator, or whether it just activates the motor(s). But it sounds legal enough. And it cuts out at 25 km/h so that's all good.
But is the motor limited to 250W continuous rated power as is required for a pedelec? I know this is a slippery subject but simply put: Can we expect a light vehicle like this, designed for shifting 250kg kg of goods, to comply with a limit that was defined for one-person bikes? If they set it up to have bags of torque for starting up and going up hills, won't it just end up crawling around? Some reports I've seen refer to two motors. Some quote the torque but not the power. An older article referred to 250-500W. More recent articles don't seem to mention power at all.
I admit my ignorance of this area, area but I'm a bit suspicious. Doing all this on a 250W motor seems a bit too good to be true. After all, I'm a continuously rated 250W motor (based on my FTP - which has probably plummeted since I last measured it), and I wouldn't fancy riding around with 250kg on the back.
I like the "last mile" concept and all. So I'm not knocking it. Just a bit puzzled about how it can be compliant with the law, and not require type rating. Or does it actually have a separate type rating or something like that?
They have a "software defined drivetrain" because chains are terribly old hat. What I think this means is that you pedal to activate the motor - as is required for a pedelec, but I'm not sure if you do much else. I don't know if the "software defined drivetrain" actually harnesses any power from you, say by driving a generator, or whether it just activates the motor(s). But it sounds legal enough. And it cuts out at 25 km/h so that's all good.
But is the motor limited to 250W continuous rated power as is required for a pedelec? I know this is a slippery subject but simply put: Can we expect a light vehicle like this, designed for shifting 250kg kg of goods, to comply with a limit that was defined for one-person bikes? If they set it up to have bags of torque for starting up and going up hills, won't it just end up crawling around? Some reports I've seen refer to two motors. Some quote the torque but not the power. An older article referred to 250-500W. More recent articles don't seem to mention power at all.
I admit my ignorance of this area, area but I'm a bit suspicious. Doing all this on a 250W motor seems a bit too good to be true. After all, I'm a continuously rated 250W motor (based on my FTP - which has probably plummeted since I last measured it), and I wouldn't fancy riding around with 250kg on the back.
I like the "last mile" concept and all. So I'm not knocking it. Just a bit puzzled about how it can be compliant with the law, and not require type rating. Or does it actually have a separate type rating or something like that?
classic33
Leg End Member
The motor size is limited, at present, to 250 watts continuous as per the EPAC regulations, for the UK. Outside of those and the driver/rider has to be insured as per any moped. So it seems the motor is restricted to meet the laws of the country its going to be used in.
There is regenerative charging of the battery with the drivetrain. This gives a range of upto 66 miles. I've seen one motor/two motors, and 1000 watts being mentioned in various articles. If they go for type rating, as a quadracycle, it would be a Class L6e, with pedal assist only, no throttle, as an electric cycle. Which wouldn't be allowed in cycle facilities.
I wonder if the motor output is what lead to the Armadillo trial, with the same company, coming to an end. That had a load capacity four times as much as the one showing in the OP. I'm all for fewer vehicles on the road, but can't see this helping.
Chris S
Legendary Member
- Location
- Birmingham
Did you play 'knock and run' as a kid?
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
DHL were using similar when I was in Utrecht maybe 5yrs ago.
Genuinely can't really think of a better job / location tbh - at least when the weather's nice
When I was in Antwerp for work a few years ago (2018 maybe) I walked to the office though a warehouse area early in the morning and I saw lots of cargo ebikes setting off on their morning rounds.
Dogtrousers
Kilometre nibbler
Thanks for that. So things are as I thought. But what gave me cause for doubt - and still puzzles me - is how you can take a spec devised for personal transport with 2 wheels (250W continuous) and apply it to goods transport with four, and not end up with something woefully underpowered.
Also, I'm still not sure about how the "software defined drivetrain" works. How does it gather the power from the user's legs and send it to the wheels? A heavy generator? A chain would be much lighter and more efficient, albeit more complicated and less cool sounding.
