I love helmets

[benb]

I personally don't perceive that the risks are the same, if you are talking about walking, for reasons I've already given

I do wear a helmet in many activities when it is not compulsory to do so namely skiing, quadbiking, off road motorcycling and climbing

Whatever you may personally perceive, the evidence is crystal clear that there are many everyday activities, not just being a pedestrian, where the risk of head injuries, both relative and absolute, are similar to cycling, or even higher.

No one has promoted stair-climbing helmets though. Why not? Maybe it's because, like cycling, the risk is so low as to be not worth the intervention.

 

[Big_Dave]

And you're factually wrong on two counts. It is possible to get insurance for an event without a helmet rule. THe CTC's standard event insurance does not mandate helmets, and as was discovered a few years ago, if you go to the source you can persuade the broker and insurer to remove the standard clause even for an event open to the public. And it is possible to hire a bike without a helmet. Just go into London and pick up a Boris Bike.

Not strictly true, Wiggle sportives for example along with several others, no helmet then you are not eligible to ride, Our local cycle hire centres insist a helmet is worn, no helmet no hire bike. I dare say that insurance companies will study insurance claims for a pattern, if helmets were considered a serious risk to injury or death by wearing one rather than not wearing one, a) there would be a considerable surcharge on the insurance over non helmet wearers or b) they would not insure you to wear a helmet. by insisting you wear an helmet I assume they are safer than not wearing one. I do not live or go into London, so it's fair to say I cannot comment on what goes on, same applies for the CTC as I am not a member.

 

[GrasB]

Simple factual claims can now be verified via the internet. Here's the google page to look at to find your case: http://www.google.co.uk/#q=coffee liability case -mcdonald's

Maybe I did a search but didn't find it quickly & I don't want to spend several hours trying to find the obscure case...

And here's a recent case from the US demonstrating that even in the home of litigation the warning isn't necessary:
http://www.nlrg.com/legal-content/t...DUCTS-LIABILITY-No-Duty-to-Warn-re-Hot-Coffee

I never said all cases succeed only there is the possibility of non-sensible verdicts being reached.

 

[Tim Hall]

Not strictly true, Wiggle sportives for example along with several others, no helmet then you are not eligible to ride, Our local cycle hire centres insist a helmet is worn, no helmet no hire bike. I dare say that insurance companies will study insurance claims for a pattern, if helmets were considered a serious risk to injury or death by wearing one rather than not wearing one, a) there would be a considerable surcharge on the insurance over non helmet wearers or b) they would not insure you to wear a helmet. by insisting you wear an helmet I assume they are safer than not wearing one. I do not live or go into London, so it's fair to say I cannot comment on what goes on, same applies for the CTC as I am not a member.

All of which doesn't negate @srw 's point, which was in response to your:

I am neutral on the helmet debate, but if insurance companies stipulate wearing helmets, then surely they must have risk assessed the helmet safety factor, surely insurance companies will not cover the most dangerous side over the safety side, if helmets are unsafe (I am not indicating that they are or not) why make people wear them for insurance purposes, it is impossible to find an event or even hire a bike without wearing one.

So events can be found where a helmet isn't required (the FNRTTC is an example that springs to mind) and as noted, Boris Bikes are hired and don't need a helmet.

Interestingly (well nearly...) Evans Ride It sportives have a mandatory helmet rule

Yes, all riders must wear a helmet during our events. This is to comply with our responsibilities and ensure insurance coverage for the event. Riders that do not have a helmet will be refused entry to the event on the day.

But in the next paragraph it seems riders are not covered by Evans insurance:

Do I need insurance or am I covered by Evans?
You do not need insurance to ride at our events but you are not covered by our policy either. Should you cause an accident or injury during our event you may be held personally responsible by the aggrieved party. It is therefore your choice if you wish to take out an individual insurance policy.

So how where does the requirement for a mandatory helmet come from? (sorry, drifting off topic a bit there)

 

[Mugshot]

I always wear one but I don't really trundle along much

As for kids and helmets, surely parents are entitled to put them on their kids even for the small amount of protection they give? Plus some little kids love wearing them according to a few friends whom have kids

Of course they are. However, I very much doubt the same parents would put a helmet on their child in the park, or when they were learning to walk or when they walk along the top of a wall that's a couple of foot off the ground for the small amount of protection they give. Even if you ignore or are unaware of the relative risks involved in cycling surely it's obvious that the chances of a child falling from a bike with stabilisers whilst travelling at walking speed is extraordinarily low compared to other normal childhood activities. @Cunobelin has mentioned the Thudguard, @Cunobelin likes the Thudguard.
Kids do love dressing up.

 

[Mugshot]

If one cycles, is he/she gullible and desperate for wearing cycling shorts/bibs and cycle jersey and not wearing a helmet??

I wear lycra on my road bike because I find it to be the most comfortable thing to wear, the pockets in a cycle jersey are ideal if you need to grab something whilst on the go, for me it's the clothes which work best for a particular type of riding. If I'm on the BSO for a trundle with the family then it'll be whatever is comfy and warm enough.

 

[Big_Dave]

All of which doesn't negate @srw 's point, which was in response to your:


So events can be found where a helmet isn't required (the FNRTTC is an example that springs to mind) and as noted, Boris Bikes are hired and don't need a helmet.

Interestingly (well nearly...) Evans Ride It sportives have a mandatory helmet rule

But in the next paragraph it seems riders are not covered by Evans insurance:

So how where does the requirement for a mandatory helmet come from? (sorry, drifting off topic a bit there)

Yes i stand corrected, I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Impossible was it's fair to say too strong a word

To the non helmet wearers, I'd be interest to know what age you are, and any of you started cycling in recent years, is the reason for not wearing one on the grounds of head injuries or just that you really do not want to wear one for other reasons

 

[green1]

I'm not justifying why I don't wear a helmet to anyone. It's my personal choice.

 

[ianrauk]

Yes i stand corrected, I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Impossible was it's fair to say too strong a word

To the non helmet wearers, I'd be interest to know what age you are, and any of you started cycling in recent years, is the reason for not wearing one on the grounds of head injuries or just that you really do not want to wear one for other reasons

48½, been cycling all my life. I don't wear a helmet because cycling is not dangerous. Is that a good enough reason for you?

 

[Mugshot]

Continue to ride without one. Cycling is not dangerous. I have ridden thousands of miles incident free both here in the UK and in the Netherlands and Germany. @User13710 is right, the only people bleating about helmets are people already wearing them - although I prefer to think of them as gullible misguided souls that fell for the bullsh@t fed to them, and are now DESPERATE for others to join them so they don't feel as big an idiot for wearing a pudding bowl as they actually look wearing one.

I think there is a lot to this. I think it's an awful lot to do with uniform, the pros wear them so the club riders wear them, the club riders wear them so commuters wear them, the commuters wear them so the sunday riders wear them. It becomes a norm with people looking no further than it's a helmet it's the right thing, it's a good thing. Add into the mix non cycling spouses/partners and children (I'm quite sure often egged on by spouses) using a bit of emotional blackmail and it's helmets on. Then, as you said @ComedyPilot they've joined the cult and to stop would mean excommunication by friends and family and possible death.

 

[Profpointy]

Yes i stand corrected, I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Impossible was it's fair to say too strong a word

To the non helmet wearers, I'd be interest to know what age you are, and any of you started cycling in recent years, is the reason for not wearing one on the grounds of head injuries or just that you really do not want to wear one for other reasons

I learnt to ride a bike long before anyone wore bike helmets, but in the 80s I wore one, long before they become common and strongly advocated others to do so. It is only later than that that I looked into it a bit more and discovered there was little if any evidence of benefit, and also rather strangely that helmet lobbyists distort the evidence and even out and out lie. I no longer wear a helmet.

 

[Mugshot]

Yes i stand corrected, I'm not afraid to admit when I am wrong. Impossible was it's fair to say too strong a word

To the non helmet wearers, I'd be interest to know what age you are, and any of you started cycling in recent years, is the reason for not wearing one on the grounds of head injuries or just that you really do not want to wear one for other reasons

I cycled a huge amount when I was younger up to around the age of 20 (I'm 45 now) then beer and fags and women got in the way and I stopped. I started again when I was about 40 and was non helmet, started getting back into it realised what I had missed and decided that my trusty Halfords Apollo could be bettered so bought myself a nice new road bike. My wife asked me to get a helmet so I did, I never felt comfortable with it and could never quite figure out if I really needed it, so I started doing some reading about it.
I came to the conclusion that cycling did not represent enough risk and helmets did not represent sufficient protection to warrant wearing one so I stopped. 3 years ago I joined this place and found that maybe I wasn't too far off the mark.
Hand on heart I do have doubts sometimes, I debate with myself as I'm riding home. It's never speed or traffic that triggers these debates though, it's wet leaves and diesel and manhole covers in the wet and dark. But I always end up at the same place, the risks aren't great enough, I am however open minded enough that I would consider wearing one again if I was convinced that I was wrong.

 

[Big_Dave]

48½, been cycling all my life. I don't wear a helmet because cycling is not dangerous. Is that a good enough reason for you?

Sorry it was a genuine question not one to mock non helmet wearers, I am not against people wearing helmets, for every argument against wearing a helmet there will also be an argument for wearing one and vice versa, I dare say both sides of the fence the truth is stretched in their favour
as with any activity,there are risks, it's not dangerous until the point of accident

 

[w00hoo_kent]

To the non helmet wearers, I'd be interest to know what age you are, and any of you started cycling in recent years, is the reason for not wearing one on the grounds of head injuries or just that you really do not want to wear one for other reasons

I'll answer, although I'm in the middle group in that I wear a helmet sometimes.
So, I commute in a helmet, I do it because it gives me somewhere to put my camera and rear light that is more solid than a hat. Also I believe it accentuates my head movements, so a head shake at a car about to pull out from a side road is likely to be easier to see. Finally commuting is where I ride in the densest amount of traffic and on the crappiest surfaces, generally at a reasonable (for me anyway) speed because I'm specifically going somewhere. So I figure my chances of an accident are higher. If I come off I don't want to scrape my face down the road, or generally get graze injuries on my head (having seen them from my Moto X days when people wore open face & face masks) so I have the helmet to possibly stop those, I'm happy to take the risk against rotational injuries. I don't expect the helmet to ever 'save my life'. Just the same as I don't expect my gloves to, nor my glasses. As I'm wearing a helmet, I wear a MET Parachute (mk1) which is a weird enough choice to prove I'm not copying any roadies.

I leisure ride in a baseball cap. This is because I don't bother with lights and cameras, I tend to be going slower, I'm often with friends or family and we are chatting and pootling along, Also I've chosen the where and the when to enjoy the ride so it's unlikely to be on leaf strewn, slippery, manhole infested roads dodging around cars, scooters and lorries. I wore a helmet when 'training' for the Ride London, because I'd be doing it in a helmet (their rules). I didn't wear a helmet on the Freecycle the day before. I do a tiny bit of mountain biking, I wear a helmet for that too. My basic kit requirement is gloves, glasses, hat, helmet (specifically in that order, I can't remember the last time I rode without gloves or glasses and I do feel 'wrong' riding a bicycle without them.)

I'm perfectly comfortable either way. Like others, I have a motorbike background and for that wearing a crash helmet is second nature.

I rode as my only transport as a teen in the 80's and didn't own a helmet. I kind of paused when I got a car, then did a bit more, including commuting in my early 20's. I bought a helmet but it was a horrible uncomfortable polystyrene abomination and I only ever wore it under severe duress. I then stopped riding completely, largely due to getting out of the habit after a nasty winter I drove through, and didn't start again until my early 40's, I'm now 44. I bought a helmet when I got back in to riding because I believed that is what you did nowadays. I chose not to wear it for everything because I felt sometimes it made sense and sometimes it didn't.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

I have a colleague who is a keen runner. Last time I saw him he showed me a family photo of him, wife, children, and dog. They were in the park with bikes all wearing helmets, dog excepted.
He told me he had been running when he tripped and hit his head on a lamppost. Split open needing stitches and concussion. I asked whether any mention had been made of helmets in A&E. None had.
I told him that I had recently fallen of my bike when it threw its chain, and cut my elbow requiring stitches. When I went to A&E much mention was made of helmets, including some figures that would have been improbable had every cyclist in London with a head injury been taken to that one hospital.

Did you convince him to not wear helmets next time he went to the park?

There is a basic perception that cyclists wear helmets, people doing other activities might, depending on the activity. I'd imagine if he'd been climbing, canoeing or skiing they would have also asked but not if he'd fallen off of his chair playing chess.

I have to admit to being a bit confused about the concept of cycling being in no way dangerous. Maybe I'm just reading too much in to the statements. The evidence of it being less safe than other things seems quite difficult to ignore. Possibly it's because I view things as being not safe because you can get hurt doing them, while others seem to think the only thing that counts is getting killed doing them.