I done it!

[gbyers]

"My intelligence is offended by any suggestion that many of the obese are not responsible for their own condition."

As I said - perhaps you ought to acquaint yourself with up-to-date research on obesity issues.

I have already replied to that.

However, I think it has to be said that a lot of so called research has to be read carefully. Much of it is about someone who has an idea and seeks proof of their own theory, ignoring everything else, rather than being independent. Much of it is written to serve a purpose, which can often be as simplistic as who pays the writer etc. (are we not at war for such reasons!!)

I mean look at some of the arguements that were raised against me in this thread:-

[/QUOTE]

Blue, there are some flaws in your reply.

Firstly, you can't just dismiss all scientific research as biased in favour of funders vested interests without quoting specific examples. Such generalisation is unhelpful and inaccurate.

Secondly, some recent research has highlighted genetic factors which will mean some individuals may not respond to simple calorie/exercise equation weight regulation (see link I posted above).

Thirdly the social factors are highly relevant, all of those you dismissed are quoted here at the FSA website. http://www.food.gov.uk/healthiereating/advertisingtochildren/promotion/promofacts/

Your argument seems to be based on the assumption that all obese individuals carry responsibility for their condition and that rectifying it is a simple matter of changing diet and exercising more. The genetic case and the social facts would suggest it's a bit more complex than that.

 

[wafflycat]

Scientific research. Dreadful stuff. Much better to rely on what we see with our own eyes and through our own filters/prejudices.

 

[Blue]

Scientific research. Dreadful stuff. Much better to rely on what we see with our own eyes and through our own filters/prejudices.

I think that you, rather than I, should be thinking carefully about what is being said here. Your comment exemplifies the arrogance being shown towards me - as mentioned before.

I didn't say ignore research - I said "a lot of so called research has to be read carefully". Hardly what you claim I said and hardly foolish comment on my part.

Are you suggesting you ignore what you see for yourself - if so you are advocating extreme gullibility.

You suggest that I assert that all obese people are responsible for their condition - quote where I said that. I have repeatedly been at pains to point out that I acknowledge that some have problems beyond their control.

The link to the FSA site was interesting - using words like marketing is a 'probable' cause. Portion sizes are a 'possible' link. Definitive research indeed. In all honesty there would be nothing on the site that I would take issue with as I don't think that is disagrees with too much, if any, of what I have said. People eat too much of the wrong food - couldn't agree more.

Look, I don't want to fight with anyone about this, or anything else for that matter. I voiced my opinion and I haven't seen any reply that makes me alter it. You think that I am not well read, fine. I think that you are an apologist for the majority of the obese. My problem with taking your line is that without hard, straight talking the majority of the obese have no incentive to sort themselves out.

Please don't get me wrong I know the issue has complexities - what issue doesn't. In my own case I had two obese parents and so, by todays reckoning, I have probably inherited an 'obesity gene' - or something of that sort. As I have already stated, my natural tendency is to gain weight - that doesn't stop me fighting it. I have a brother who is significantly obese. That brother is on heavy duty medication which he claims slows him down and leads to the weight gain - fine. He won't take on board anything I say about even simple exercise. What my 'simplified' thought process doesn't understand is why his wife and children are in the same state, but not on the medication. Unless, of course, they all simply eat too much and exercise too little - gosh, I wonder!!

My comments may be simplistic - that doesn't mean that they are wrong. A lot of simple things are pure genius.

The bottom line is that I am happy to voice my opinion. I am also happy if people ignore what I say - but that doesn't mean that I am wrong.

 

[Pete]

(very belatedly ) Congrats Chris, and congrats especially to you, Helen! Having touched on this subject before now, I know how much this achievement must mean to you.

 

[Blue]

Report out today from the Institute for European Environmental Policy states that we shoud deal with the obesity crisis by forcing parents and their children to walk more so that they develop good habits.

Couldn't agree more

 

[wafflycat]

If the answer was as simple as more exercise, I'd be built like a stick insect, considering I exercise on a daily basis.

 

[Steve Austin]

Blue, your whole theory is so simplistic, you could change the world with your theory if it was workable and correct! Eat less, move more is 100% correct in theory, and in the laboratory works everytime.
Put it in the real world and it fails miserably

Quoting snippits of theories that support you 'simple' theory is worthless too. Maybe you need to understand there is more happening to the human form than exercise and food consumption.

 

[chris42]

Blue, your whole theory is so simplistic, you could change the world with your theory if it was workable and correct! Eat less, move more is 100% correct in theory, and in the laboratory works everytime.
Put it in the real world and it fails miserably

Quoting snippits of theories that support you 'simple' theory is worthless too. Maybe you need to understand there is more happening to the human form than exercise and food consumption.

Well said!

 

[Steve Austin]

Want some cake?

 

[Blue]

Blue, your whole theory is so simplistic, you could change the world with your theory if it was workable and correct! Eat less, move more is 100% correct in theory, and in the laboratory works everytime.
Put it in the real world and it fails miserably

Quoting snippits of theories that support you 'simple' theory is worthless too. Maybe you need to understand there is more happening to the human form than exercise and food consumption.

Thank you for affirming my theory.

Shame on you for saying what I have to say is worthless and suggesting I don't understand people. Neither is correct

I have acknowledged the problems involved with the issue and have worked with people all my working life - I understand them only too well.

I have always struggled with a weight problem. I follow my theory without difficulty and it hasn't failed yet.

The majority of the obesity problem is tied in with the frailty of the basic human personality that will always seek the easiest path through life. I mean to say, the report I referred to earlier has brought us to the point where people will have to be compelled to walk because they won't make that decision for themselves - what sort of world are we creating by inventing excuses for people. Get real, town-planners make it easy to travel by car so it's their fault that we drive and get fat rather than walk and get fit. Is this logic not in the realms of suggesting that gun makers may as well have pulled the trigger in every gun murder.

People here have suggested I am not well read and too simplistic etc. Let me tell you all something. Two years ago I retired from a successful career as a teacher of Law and Business Studies. My academic qualifications are such that I have more letters after my name than in it. Due to the nature of my job I worked with people all day every day. I used to watch my students complicate, and get no-where with, almost every issue they were given for discussion and I spent my time telling them to keep it simple (because it works).

I voiced a valid opinion on a forum and in reply I get strangers telling me I am not well read and don't know how the real world works.

You all make me laugh.

 

[wafflycat]

Being an academic in law means diddly-squat when it comes to understanding science.

 

[chris42]

Let's all carm down a few of us have lost some weight and a we have had a debate.
It is now going round in circles.
Lets leave this as the last post and all move on?

 

[Blue]

Being an academic in law means diddly-squat when it comes to understanding science.

Oh dear, back to the insults. Be careful, don't let your brains go to your head!!

(BTW, just remember who started the slagging before you feel too insulted by my remark).

 

[Steve Austin]

sorry, i need to reply to Blue.

I said your using one theory to back up your opinion was worthless and it is. As an academic you will undoubtedly realise that using one theory to support another is fundamentally flawed.

I think you may be a little delicate for Forums Blue, if you post an opinion and folk dis-agree and you are unhappy with what they say then first off, make sure you are right.
As i said, your view on weight gain, is naive and wrong, and fails to acknowledge so many other factors.

Carry on contributing and expect some dis-agreement, but there is little point spitting your dummy if folk dis-agree, especially on subjects that polarise opinion.

 

[Blue]

Let's all carm down a few of us have lost some weight and a we have had a debate.
It is now going round in circles.
Lets leave this as the last post and all move on?

Fair enough, Chris. I will not write any more - just forgive me for not taking the last insult without reply.