Hydraulic Disc Brakes Some Info Needed

[GilesM]

I went to buy Hope from my LBS and they had nothing but negative comments about them; seem to require constant fettling.

That is very odd, they really are fit and forget.

 

[GilesM]

There is a difference between mineral oils and Dot4 or 5.1 so here's where it gets technical

Dot 4 boiling point >260c reducing to >155c when wet. Will readily absorb moisture and damages paintwork.

dot 5.1 boiling point >260c reducing to >180c when wet, properties as before

Mineral oil boiling point >240c fairly constant. Less absorption of water. Less or no damage to paintwork.

Mineral should never be mixed with Dot fluid although 4 and 5.1 can be mixed the result having the properties of dot 4
Dot shelf life from manufacture 3 years
Mineral shelf life 5 years.

So overall I prefer mineral oils.................

Oh my brain hurts now!

This is the actual spec for the DOT standards, but many of the DOT 4 and 5.1 fluids perform much better, the only real advantage of the mineral oil fluid is as you've mentioned, it doesn't damage the paint work. The shelf life is a bit irrelevant as once th seals on the bottles are broken then both types of fuild will start to absorb water.

One useful thing to remember is not to buy cycle brake fluid, by a bottle of DOT 4 for cars from Halfords, it'll be much cheaper.

 

[Cubist]

Those Deore should be just what you want. They are awesome VFM, and review really really well in the comics. They use mineral oil, and will come pre-bled and ready to fit. Cubette has an older pair on her Merida, and they are pretty good at stopping, with plenty of feel etc. The M595s are supposed to be even better, and generally the reviews all ask the question why anyone would want to spend more.

I fitted Cubester's Ragley with Hope Tech M4s. They are awesome, and a thing of real beauty. They were a bit of a fiddle to fit, but have repaid that patience over and over again.

How about Hayes Strokers MacB? Good solid performers. Fit and forget. I have them on the XC bike, and have not had to bleed them or fiddle in three years.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Avid Elixir R is "fettle often" in another language.

 

[MacB]

Those Deore should be just what you want. They are awesome VFM, and review really really well in the comics. They use mineral oil, and will come pre-bled and ready to fit. Cubette has an older pair on her Merida, and they are pretty good at stopping, with plenty of feel etc. The M595s are supposed to be even better, and generally the reviews all ask the question why anyone would want to spend more.

I fitted Cubester's Ragley with Hope Tech M4s. They are awesome, and a thing of real beauty. They were a bit of a fiddle to fit, but have repaid that patience over and over again.

How about Hayes Strokers MacB? Good solid performers. Fit and forget. I have them on the XC bike, and have not had to bleed them or fiddle in three years.

Ta, to be honest if the M595 are good enough then they'll be the ones based on the hinged, low profile, clamp design. I may actually be wrapping over the levers with bar tape and the less the clamp protrudes the better.

 

[MacB]

Avid Elixir R is "fettle often" in another language.

they're off the list then

 

[MacB]

Could anyone please enlighten me on matchmaker setups pairing shifters to levers and what is available and what works with what, 9 speed ideally. Below I give the detail as to why for those interested in my semi insane ramblings

Hmmm, still mooching and procrastinating, to better understand where I'm at, my road bike now sports the loop version of these bars:-

http://www.jonesbikes.com/h-bar.html

I can mount any setup I want behind the loop but I'm interested in what I can mount forward of it. The initial idea was an open/hinged brake lever clamp just above the loop. Thus allowing braking from the rear, middle and forward positions on the sides. Then use the new road thumbie from Pauls, with a hinge clamp, to mount bar end style shifters either by the stem or up on the corner of the loop ahead of the brake lever.

The Pauls thumbies aren't available yet so I was looking around and have found matchmakers, that allow you to mount shifter pods directly onto the brake mount. This would mean I could put shifter pods ahead of the loop, though the positioning would need to be carefully considered for access to the shifters. If I had the brakes mounted just ahead of the loop then the crossbar/flats section would probably interfere with access to the triggers. Having ridden the bars a bit now I find myself using the central and forward side positions in the main. So I'm considering whether I could mount the brake plus matchmaker setup well forward. This could clear any obstruction issues but would mean the rearward most position didn't have immediate braking.

However if I do it this way, and it works, then I would be shortening the rearward part of the bars anyway. Or if I come into some dosh I'd buy the Ti version that combines the Cut H-Bar sizing with the closed frontal aspect of the Loop version. This isn't currently listed on the site but is available.

 

[Nordog]

I had a major front brake problem with Hopes coming down off Allt Lwyd at speed, it failed all the fluid drained out of the piston. Never will I have them again.

 

[Muddy Ground]

My Shimano SLX had some internal problem whereby the seals in the lever failed - meant the piston at the caliper end locked on. I've replaced it with same for the rear, but for the front I'm sticking with Magura as they have proven reliable. Hope seem to be getting mixed reviews, which seems odd.

 

[MacB]

My Shimano SLX had some internal problem whereby the seals in the lever failed - meant the piston at the caliper end locked on. I've replaced it with same for the rear, but for the front I'm sticking with Magura as they have proven reliable. Hope seem to be getting mixed reviews, which seems odd.

Yep, it's enough to drive you insane, every recommendation I can find somewhere on the web saying don't touch with a bargepole. To be honest, overall, for lack of fettling, value for money and ease of setup, the Deore are doing rather well. I can still find critics but they seem to get jumped on by a wave of fans that have long useage with no issues.

As this set are for a road bike and road use only I'm kind of hoping that some of the disc brake woes, generally down to harsh MTB activity, won't be a problem.

But it also depends on how my sales go as I've now found a couple of cheaper options for v-brake levers with a hinged clamp. So I could just whack my MTB BB7s on, which I know work well and I've setup already. Due to intended use this may be the smartest option and leave the hydraulics as a potential future upgrade...it really was the hinged/open clamp that I needed above all else.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Dems funky bars MacB. Not sure I'd spend $120 on a pair but they do give you acres of space and loads of options for mounting stuff.

Avid Matchmakers. I have them on the MTB. They do what they say on the tin but provide ample evidence that I have more money than sense. Weightweenies love them though and if you have a remote poploc to accommodate on an mtb bar they make sense.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yep, it's enough to drive you insane, every recommendation I can find somewhere on the web saying don't touch with a bargepole. To be honest, overall, for lack of fettling, value for money and ease of setup, the Deore are doing rather well. I can still find critics but they seem to get jumped on by a wave of fans that have long useage with no issues.

As this set are for a road bike and road use only I'm kind of hoping that some of the disc brake woes, generally down to harsh MTB activity, won't be a problem.

But it also depends on how my sales go as I've now found a couple of cheaper options for v-brake levers with a hinged clamp. So I could just whack my MTB BB7s on, which I know work well and I've setup already. Due to intended use this may be the smartest option and leave the hydraulics as a potential future upgrade...it really was the hinged/open clamp that I needed above all else.

I honestly think hydro discs on a road going bike are overkill and must make it more than a little overbraked, just too easy to grab a big handful in traffic and lock things up. BB7's though? We know I love them.

 

[MacB]

I honestly think hydro discs on a road going bike are overkill and must make it more than a little overbraked, just too easy to grab a big handful in traffic and lock things up. BB7's though? We know I love them.

I think that's where I've reached, so I'll put the hydros I have on the new 29er and put the MTB BB7s on the road bike using the hinged clamp v-brake levers.

When I revisit all my handlebar permutations I see that I'm ending up with something not a million miles away from butterfly bars with the controls on the sides. Something I attempted without success on the butterfly bars and finally led to me pursuing all these combinations. The Jones bars may seem expensive but it's small beans compared to the amount I've lost over barely used bars, stems, levers, shifters, brakes and cables

 

[GrumpyGregry]

You can't put a price on experience though.

 

[MacB]

You can't put a price on experience though.

correction, I have deliberately avoided adding it up as I know it would come to the price of quite a nice bike

Still, you do have a point, I know more about how things go together and how to maintain them than I ever would otherwise