How to get more Britons on bikes? Don't listen* to existing cyclists for a start say £1m report

[Angelfishsolo]

Fine, but why have the authors got it wrong?

They are academics what do you expect!!!!?

 

[abo]

Sorry, I didn't make it very well. The academics were (I'm guessing) trying to find a different angle, in order to get their (unremarkable) research in the news. So one says "I know, why don't we NOT ask the people who do these things regularly?". I can see the point in asking those who don't, but...
So, therefore, why not ask people who don't get their hair cut about their opinions on haircuts... etc etc... it's still probably a cr@p point

To use the haircut analogy, here are some responses I just made up:

I like my hair long
I don't like having shorter hair
I don't have time to go to the barber
All people with short hair are tossers, why would I want to be like them?
There are sooo many styles and I don't know which to choose
Last time I went to a barber he cut my hair for £2.50 and he made a terrible job of it

Lol I spent so much time typing this I forgot the point I was going to make

 

[Angelfishsolo]

To use the haircut analogy, here are some responses I just made up:

I like my hair long
I don't like having shorter hair
I don't have time to go to the barber
All people with short hair are tossers, why would I want to be like them?
There are sooo many styles and I don't know which to choose
Last time I went to a barber he cut my hair for £2.50 and he made a terrible job of it

Lol I spent so much time typing this I forgot the point I was going to make

Excuses is the point I believe.

 

[CopperCyclist]

I agree too, it makes sense to ask people who don't ride/walk rather than those that already do. However, I think they need to be aware of their point that most people wish to encourage cycling, as long as its not them doing it.

I have visions of non-riders suggesting 'helpful' scenarios like a segregated cycle lane that gets us out of motorists way - only to get irritated if we don't use it due to a design fault as they didn't consult a cyclist - e.g. its only wide enough for one bike so you can't pass anyone, its repeatedly painted with that white paint that becomes super slippy in rain...

 

[PedAntics]

I understand the rational of asking those who don't currently cycle as opposed to those, come what may, will brave the roads regardless. However like a lot of these studies a lot of talk, expenses and no end product will be the outcome. I'm sure existing cyclists could also provide meaningful input. Existing cyclists, originally, had to start somewhere. There seems to be an infatuation with building our way out i.e. expensive cycle routes and painting lines all over the place. Education, education, education - educate ALL road users so to they can co-habit on the existing infrastructure. I'm also guilty of telling my family and friends of my -ve experiences, probably doesn't help the overall cause of getting them on to their bikes.

 

[sunnyjim]

"Alternatives to the car – especially cycling and walking – are perceived to take too much effort, need planning and equipment that causes hassle, and may be risky and uncomfortable. They also run the risk of being perceived by others as being eccentric or odd. These are all powerful reasons for not walking and cycling and for using the car for most short trips in urban areas."


Maybe it's not the cars or the roads or the lack of 'facilities'. Its too many people being wimps.

 

[Oxo]

"Alternatives to the car – especially cycling and walking – are perceived to take too much effort, need planning and equipment that causes hassle, and may be risky and uncomfortable. They also run the risk of being perceived by others as being eccentric or odd. These are all powerful reasons for not walking and cycling and for using the car for most short trips in urban areas."

Two main reasons/excuses for not doing short trips by bike in the area I live are motorway and other major road junctions which can be daunting to less experienced cyclists and the lack of anywhere safe to lock a bike if cycling into town. It doesn't matter how good a lock is if there is nowhere suitable to attached it.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

It doesn't matter how good a lock is if there is nowhere suitable to attached it.

That is a VERY good point indeed.

 

[Mad at urage]

Forgive me for not giving a lot of credence to 'academics' who don't appear to know the difference between 'strict liability' and 'presumption of liability' and which system is commonly used in Europe. Doesn't say much for their 'research' if they can't even get that bit right...

Maybe if they'd been paid a round million, they would have had some time to spare and could have hired a youth to google it?

Possibly they may have then also taken time to not miss the essential word in their primary conclusions?

Clearly the study wasn't expensive enough.

in theory I like the the idea, but my problem with this type of research.... its mainly done by non cycling academics asking non cyclist, whats best ... it will never work, but they will find an expensive solution, that nobody will use, so they'll do more reseach to find out why it didn't work and again they'll find an expensive solution and so on and so on,....

the biggest problem is not the roads or the cars but the weather and thats difficult to change......

lots of people cycle in spain but then again 300+ days of dry weather makes a big difference but not many woman, the gender issue is something esle that needs addressing....
in many respects its a problem that can't be fixed, people like to drive ...

Sweden I believe has a high take-up for cycling: Remind me, is their weather better than the UK?

Two main reasons/excuses for not doing short trips by bike in the area I live are motorway and other major road junctions which can be daunting to less experienced cyclists and the lack of anywhere safe to lock a bike if cycling into town. It doesn't matter how good a lock is if there is nowhere suitable to attached it.

Clearly an argument for less car-parks in town centres .

 

[Red Light]

You know, that's a fair point and one I agree with. Get people committed to their cars to tell them why they don't want to cycle/walk and tackle the reasons behind it, rather than have experts come up with the reasons and try and push walking/bikes onto people. By all means involve these commited cyclists/walkers when deciding how to implement the changes.

The problem is that most people who don't cycle when asked will rationalise it with some off the top of the head reason when very probably have never considered it. So you end up not with the reasons but the popular excuses. Then you can easily end up chasing ghosts.

Why don't you cycle?
It's not safe.
We've sorted that so now will you cycle?
But I might get wet.
There's good rain gear available
Yes but it's expensive
You can get some good stuff cheap from Lidl
Yes but what will people think if the see me in it
Etc

If you don't want to do it there are a million excuses you can come up with not to

 

[Dan B]

most brits wouldn't be seen dead on some the bikes the dutch ride (windscreens, baskets etc)...

Have you seen the "boris bike"? It's the bastard offspring of a dutch bike and a vandal-proof bus shelter, and that really doesn't seem to have detracted from its popularity

 

[Mad at urage]

Sweden I believe has a high take-up for cycling: Remind me, is their weather better than the UK?

Your right but for them its a life-style, away of life, a mind set, like it is in the Netherlands...thats very hard to change, some would say in this day and age an impossiblity and in other countries there isn't a big deal made about BSO's and most brits wouldn't be seen dead on some the bikes the dutch ride (windscreens, baskets etc)...

I think you have a good point there: Local LBS (nice bloke, good shop) tried to gently pressurise me into getting a wireless computer instead of the wired one "Wires look cr@p" etc... looked at my bike - "Well, I guess it doesn't matter too much then" . OTOH my usual "commute" bike probably makes people look on cyclists as people who can't afford better (but then it's designed to, sprayed matt black with BBQ paint! ).

Trouble is, cyclists can't all be expected to be part of some image make-over - too disparate, no real 'common' interest in doing so. Only thing left (IMO) is to make other choices more inconvenient when cycling wold be possible for most people: Boris bikes with park&ride and no inner car-parks except for disabled perhaps?

 

[lukesdad]

"Alternatives to the car – especially cycling and walking – are perceived to take too much effort, need planning and equipment that causes hassle, and may be risky and uncomfortable. They also run the risk of being perceived by others as being eccentric or odd. These are all powerful reasons for not walking and cycling and for using the car for most short trips in urban areas."


Maybe it's not the cars or the roads or the lack of 'facilities'. Its too many people being wimps.

Or just plain lazy ?

 

[Bicycle]

The report is quite right in terms of not listening to current walkers and cyclists.

Any disincentive currently in place was not enough to deter them, so they are already converted and therefore outside the equation.

It's the non-cyclist who needs encouragement.

For the same reason, political parties don't play to their core, card-carrying voters; they go for the swing vote.

Everyone I know who doesn't cycle (the majority by some margin) is unlikely to cycle under any circumstances.

Sadly, many are very nervous about letting their children ride....

Certainly there is a perception of exposure to risk.

There is (oddly) a perception of a high start-up cost and the need to maintain and store a bicycle.

Then there is the UK weather.

I do not think all the persuasion in the world could get the nervous to believe the risk had gone.

I do not believe that any amount of mandatory driver training could improve the driving of the majority of our drivers. We are human and we are prone to human error.

I do not believe that any quantity of cycle lanes, altered traffic-signal priority and ASLs will improve the perception that cycling is risky. I have never used a cycle lane in the UK; most seem half-arsed in concept and poor in construction.

The matter of cost will diminish slightly as the cost of running a car or taking a cab continue to rise.

But... I think the best route for the Government would be doing something about the weather.

Although nowhere near as bad as many think, the widespread perception is that it is cold and wet in the UK from June until the following May.

My solution:

Three or four tugs could tow Great Britain down to just west of the Bay of Biscay and we could anchor there. We'd have cycling weather all year round and we'd be spared the sight on the TV News of Orangemen marching in the summer.... We'd use our newfound remoteness from Ireland as a pretext for UDI.

If ever two birds were hit with one stone....

The above, to my mind, is the only practicable and workable solution that would get people riding.

Please keep your plaudits and congratulations brief; I am a modest man and don't like too much fuss.

Thank you for reading this...

 

[Biscuit]

My solution:

Three or four tugs could tow Great Britain down to just west of the Bay of Biscay and we could anchor there. We'd have cycling weather all year round and we'd be spared the sight on the TV News of Orangemen marching in the summer.... We'd use our newfound remoteness from Ireland as a pretext for UDI.

If ever two birds were hit with one stone....

The above, to my mind, is the only practicable and workable solution that would get people riding.

Please keep your plaudits and congratulations brief; I am a modest man and don't like too much fuss.

Thank you for reading this...

You forgot to mention the abolition of British Summer Time and a bit longer days, ( for cycling ) in general. Why didn't we do this before.