How to decide on my training / nutrition plan…

[goose11]

Hi goose. The Dragon has some training weekends advertised on the website which could be usefull if you have the time.

I am entered in the Dragon and trying to start getting some mileage in now inbetween flu snow etc etc.
I have ridden all the roads on the dragon before but not in one go. No stupidly steep bits just a lot of climbing miles.

Right now I dont think I could get round the 200 km in the 9.5 hours time limit. I intend to do the 200km but If I dont feel confident on the day I am going to drop onto the medio route .

4000 riders should be quite a spectacle.

Cheers Banjo - good to know that there is nothing too steep - likewise, just need to get the miles in. I just want to make sure that its the right miles!

 

[goose11]

Well you can simply push down on the pedals Goose .

With cleats though you can improve on this by firstly developing the muscles to push down,pull back, pull up and then push foward on the pedal.

Once you have got a semblance of muscle development then you put them altogether and pedal in circles -although this takes a bit of practice. The advantage is that momentum is maintained (esp on hills) and more muscles are brought into play therefore sharing the work load.

As I say Pete - always with cleats for me - still always trying to get the push, pull, pull, push motion right.

 

[ttcycle]

Hi goose

My suggestion is to get out on the road for now- it will build you up mentally battling against the coldness and the weather etvc and if it's a really grim day go on the turbo but worth being out on the roads as it will be better training-turbo is best used for one legged sprint drills or intervals that you can't do on the road.

That however, is just my opinion and you need to work out what is best for you and how you'll find it easier to get the miles in for the training!

 

[Hugo15]

Garry has just posted on the SportsTest Facebook pages to say that there are a few places left at his Successful Sportives seminar in Ruislip next week.

http://www.sportstest.co.uk/successful_seminars.htm

I went to one in Harrogate and thought it was great. Well worth the £15

BTW I have no connection to SportsTest other than from attending the seminar.

 

[Broadside]

Goose11, it's difficult to know what advice to offer without knowing what you have done already and a bit more about you in general. I get the impression that you already have a very good base fitness, at least I hope you do because the two rides you have signed up for are not going to be easy.


Riding a bike starts to get a bit more technical after 2 hours in the saddle which is when you can expect your stored energy to exhaust, this should be around the 50-60km mark. You therefore need to keep topping the energy stores up before they deplete - there is a term called bonking (runners call it the wall) which you need to try and avoid getting to. When you haven't done it before it is really hard to get right. Lots of people get by with ordinary foods which will certainly do the trick, but personally I mix this with carrying gels in my back pocket to get me out of a hole if I get the normal foods nutrition slightly wrong. I also add maltodextrin carb powders to my water to try and give me a bit more endurance.


My longest ride to date is 125 miles (which is not a lot compared to many on this forum) and I got by on sandwiches, cakes, flapjack and Jelly Babies and then just used one gel toward the end when I was running in to trouble. I work to the idea that I burn approx 50cal/mile and try to replace that while eating on the bike - it is very hard to take in enough calories so you will need to graze continuously - at least it feels like that because you will need to eat when you don't feel hungry. Others on this forum will recommend only replacing half or a third of what you burn.


There is really only one way for you to find out how your body will cope and what fueling technique works for you - get out and regularly ride some big distances (100km+). Before attempting the Dragon you need to be entirely comfortable with knocking out a lot of miles pretty much non-stop. You can obviously do it at whatever pace you like but if you're not ready for a big distance then it is not going to be enjoyable. When you are fit for it the distances are a lot of fun. Alpe D'Huez will be another matter entirely, I've only ever skied there in the winter but I would love to ride up there one day. That will be a once in a lifetime ride, I have to admit to being surprised to hear you're attempting it with no previous significant bike experience but that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't have a crack at it. How hard can it be??!!


Lukesdad is entirely right that sports nutrition stuff is expensive, but to use your own words you have bitten a lot off here. I would recommend you get stuck in to all the sports nutrition kit you can lay your hands on so you have one less thing to worry about. You should prioritise getting out on the road rather than relying on the turbo.


What bike are you doing all this on?

 

[goose11]

Goose11, it's difficult to know what advice to offer without knowing what you have done already and a bit more about you in general. I get the impression that you already have a very good base fitness, at least I hope you do because the two rides you have signed up for are not going to be easy.

Riding a bike starts to get a bit more technical after 2 hours in the saddle which is when you can expect your stored energy to exhaust, this should be around the 50-60km mark. You therefore need to keep topping the energy stores up before they deplete - there is a term called bonking (runners call it the wall) which you need to try and avoid getting to. When you haven't done it before it is really hard to get right. Lots of people get by with ordinary foods which will certainly do the trick, but personally I mix this with carrying gels in my back pocket to get me out of a hole if I get the normal foods nutrition slightly wrong. I also add maltodextrin carb powders to my water to try and give me a bit more endurance.

My longest ride to date is 125 miles (which is not a lot compared to many on this forum) and I got by on sandwiches, cakes, flapjack and Jelly Babies and then just used one gel toward the end when I was running in to trouble. I work to the idea that I burn approx 50cal/mile and try to replace that while eating on the bike - it is very hard to take in enough calories so you will need to graze continuously - at least it feels like that because you will need to eat when you don't feel hungry. Others on this forum will recommend only replacing half or a third of what you burn.

There is really only one way for you to find out how your body will cope and what fueling technique works for you - get out and regularly ride some big distances (100km+). Before attempting the Dragon you need to be entirely comfortable with knocking out a lot of miles pretty much non-stop. You can obviously do it at whatever pace you like but if you're not ready for a big distance then it is not going to be enjoyable. When you are fit for it the distances are a lot of fun. Alpe D'Huez will be another matter entirely, I've only ever skied there in the winter but I would love to ride up there one day. That will be a once in a lifetime ride, I have to admit to being surprised to hear you're attempting it with no previous significant bike experience but that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't have a crack at it. How hard can it be??!!

Lukesdad is entirely right that sports nutrition stuff is expensive, but to use your own words you have bitten a lot off here. I would recommend you get stuck in to all the sports nutrition kit you can lay your hands on so you have one less thing to worry about. You should prioritise getting out on the road rather than relying on the turbo.

What bike are you doing all this on?

Dmoran – thanks for yourinsight. Base fitness is pretty reasonable I think. Until recently sports 1 or2 times a week along with a ride to work average 4 days a week (circa 10m roundtrip). Also maybe 2 bigger, Sunday rides a month. A long way from enough, buthave always been fairly sporty.

Eating or grazing is somethingI need to work on a bit – I invariably leave getting bars, drinks etc until toolate and come the Sunday ride I am with water and a banana, hopeful ofrestocking along the way. I’ve just ordered a pack from SiS of a few bars, pre,during and post drinks mix to see how I get on with them. Would rather order inbulk if I am going to add this process into my set up and haven’t tried SiSbefore. I’m remembering now to keep drinking and eating though – 2/3 gulpsevery 10-15 mins.

My thought with attemptingthese rides was not to try and pull off some sort of impressive feat – reallyit’s more about getting a focus for my riding – and something to aim for.Whilst I am hopeful that Dragon and the Etape will both be a lot of fun all myriding to now has been without anything in mind. I’m concentrating on the ‘oncein a lifetime’ element right now! I’m not sure I have mentioned, but I am keenon getting a couple of additional less taxing sportives in between now and then– practice the group riding and keeping the distances up.

Appreciate the focus on gettingthe miles in dmoran – I think the consensus I have had here suggests that theturbo, although useful later, right now could have been a wrong call on mypart. Maybe I am better off selling it on, getting a Garmin or similar and justcracking on with some routes that I can find in London…

My ride for this is anLitespeed C3 – far more money than I intended to spend (Ride 2 Work took careof over half), but was researching and test riding bikes for about 6 months beforesettling on this so not an impulse decision. I have spent the money though toget onto a bike that I hope will last me a few years, I can upgrade as I getbetter and most of all I can enjoy riding.

 

[ttcycle]

Nice bike mate!

No need to sell the turbo - it may be useful when you happen to need it either to do some specific training or when you really don't want to head out in the rain (as long as you don't do this too often)

 

[lukesdad]

Miles and hills are what you need goose . The events you have entered are endurance events. You are not training for a 50 mile road race or a short TT. Short intensive training sessions are not a priority. IMO less days riding and longer distances are what you need with good time to recover.

 

[goose11]

Hi all,

Bit of an update since the last post.

Keeping rigid as I can with the training and essentially taking a lead from Pete Reads Black Book as to what and when. I read through a copy of the book and found it really, very useful (so thanks). The training is for season racers obviously so will no doubt need to adapt later to ensure endurance ability.

At the moment building the base as if it were November with 1hr Zone 2 sessions on Tues, Weds, Thurs (all single speed bike). Then come the weekend 1 - 2 hrs on Saturday Zone 1/2 and Sunday 3hrs Zone 1/2 (on my 'nice' bike). Making sure I am keeping pedalling and minimizing stopping (essentially avoiding traffic lights).

Also riding to work 4 days a week, adding a few additional miles. I hope this looks OK for a base building.

So far so good - I'm keeping the carbs and proteins high and every meal is with as many veggies as I can lay my hands on.

Looking to maintain the pace this week and next - then skiing the week after (which will be my week off the bike). Assuming I come back in one piece the training plan will continue with maybe the turbo starting to get a little bit of use and adding 30 mins to each of the weekend sessions - which will equate to about an additional 10% in effort.

Feeling a bit of fatigue in the legs, but working through it - which is much easier knowing I have a plan.

I've signed up to a couple more sportives as well in Feb / March.

Hopefully will start to see the difference's creeping in...

Thanks again for all of the help.

 

[vorsprung]

I think your approach is pretty good

Most of your training rides are pretty short. The Dragon ride is 200km and you are talking about longer rides of 100km. It might be an idea to do some events of 200km before hand. If you look at the audax calendar here

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/index.htm
And fiddle about with the controls on the web page you can see there are lots of events in your area. They are cheap to enter and you will get experience with riding with a bunch of madmen other riders. Also riding this kind of distance will let you know how your body will react, it's a good way to try out energy drinks etc and if your saddle is comfy

Two other things you can do. Firstly, the Etape and to a lesser extent the Dragon will have some long climbs in it. You will be climbing for over an hour. Basically this means you will be putting an effort in for over an hour. In your training on the turbo, take this into account. Take a look at the etape profile, work out the maximum time you will spend climbing and ensure you can ride for that time at a heart rate of (say) 85%. This should also help with your pacing during the event

Secondly, part of endurance riding is getting the body to burn fat as fuel. There is a limit to how many energy gels you can stuff in your face while riding up mountains at full tilt. So the way around this is to ride at a reasonable pace ( around 70% HRM) and get your body to burn fat instead of carbs. To help your body be more efficient at using fat many experts believe that riding at a moderate pace for a relatively short period ( ie your commute ) without breakfast is helpful. You are allowed to have breakfast afterwards

 

[ttcycle]

Hey,

thanks for the update.

Good to hear that things are a bit more structured.

As vorsprung has mentioned already, get some longer rides in - a ride once a week of 2-3 hours or doing a much longer distance once a week is essential for the rides you've chosen.

I ask this question to everyone, are you building enough resting time for your body to adapt to the training?
Glad to hear that you are eating well and staying hydrated.

Keep up the good work!!

 

[goose11]

Hey,

thanks for the update.

Good to hear that things are a bit more structured.

As vorsprung has mentioned already, get some longer rides in - a ride once a week of 2-3 hours or doing a much longer distance once a week is essential for the rides you've chosen.

I ask this question to everyone, are you building enough resting time for your body to adapt to the training?
Glad to hear that you are eating well and staying hydrated.

Keep up the good work!!

Cheers ttcycle.

Rest wise - I'm actually not feeling too bad. The weekday rides are fine - I am tired, but not aching necessarily. For the weekends I've already told myself that listening to my body on this is pretty important so if I need to cut one of the Sat / Sun rides I will. I'm very aware of overdoing it, but at the same time know I need to keep pushing especially when feeling a bit of fatigue - otherwise I wont improve.
Do you think I should be doing additional 2/3 hr rides on top of the weekends?

Eating best I can - typical day:

Porridge / plain bagel + banana for breakfast
mid morning handful of nuts
Bagel with chicken, lettuce, tomato and humous for lunch
afternoon banana / handful of nuts
Fish / chicken with potatoes / brown rice and as much veg as is available for dinner

1.5 - 2 litres of water a day minimum.

 

[Broadside]

hey goose11,

how is your training going?

 

[goose11]

hey goose11,

how is your training going?

Hi dmoran,

Thanks for asking.

OK - I think...Doing my best to stick to the 1hr 3x weekly + 3hr + weekend ride. Having said that I had my first Sportive on Sunday so only had one 30 minute session in the previous week - wanted fresh legs going in. That was 91km for the actual event + 932m of climbing - which I finished in just under 4 hours - inc a food stop for almost exactly 30 mins. I could have had I think maybe 7/8+ mins better on that, but was drafting for a friend throughout that last 25% - his legs gave up.

The hardest thing as I've seen almost everywhere is fitting this in around actually going about day to day life. I have missed some 'sessions', but doing my best to limit that. Its not been helped by the fact that my the roads on my current spot for training have been dug up as of the last couple of weeks and are being replaced. It means half of my circuit doesn't have tarmac so I need to find somewhere new, quick!

I'm also looking to switch one of my weekly hours to a turbo session, simulating an uphill best I can (something wedging up the front wheel and getting up the resistance). Its tough though - I cant seem to find a wheel to use for training anywhere - any advice on this front is most welcome!

Nutrition wise - I think I am actually eating the rights foods, but in too high a volume. Looking to weigh in this weekend hopefully and work out some specifics on input/output.