How much do riders collude to allow a "wild card" stage winner?

[Globalti]

I've read that the day's stage winner is often pre-ordained by the riders, who will agree on somebody to enjoy the win as long as they present no threat to the GC. Yesterday it was Simon Geschke who put in the performance of his life, doubtless aided by the aero advantage of his caffeine-fertilised beard and it can't be any coincidence that Steve Cummins won stage 14 for MTN Qhubeka on Mandela Day.

As well as the prestige, the pecuniary value of a stage win must be massive; not just in the prize money (is there prize money for a stage win?) but in the boost it gives to the team and the individual, especially in life after retirement.

 

[coffeejo]

 

[Milkfloat]

From what I gather there is a huge amount of collusion going on with informal agreements between teams that need to work together, plus informal agreements between individual riders. Prize money for a stage win is €8,000 so that adds a bit of extra to it too. How much is really pre planned and how much is decided on the road, I have no idea, I suspect it is a bit of a mix.

 

[HF2300]

@oldroadman may have some input here, and it's touched on in many riders' biographies. My impression is that while there are informal alliances between teams and individual riders, it's a long stretch to say the stage win is arranged in advance.

You'll often see an informal quid pro quo between teams, and individual riders might make impromptu arrangements in the stage - for example, if there's two riders in a break, one wanting sprint points and the other wanting KOM, the one might be allowed to take the sprint and then will sit back and let the other take the KOM. It's often said that once a rider has made a break and got away, it might be allowed to succeed if no-one else has an interest in the stage or any points on offer - but could 200-odd riders all with very different abilities and motivations really collude to ensure a single winner of a stage? Doubtful, frankly.

Geschke timed his break well yesterday and managed to escape for a number of different reasons. We've seen that happen plenty of times before and end in failure - it just happened to work yesterday, again for a number of different reasons. As for Cummings' win, it's been suggested in the TdF thread that it was rigged, and the suggestion's been shot down in flames. Apart from anything else, if ASO or the teams wanted a win for Mandela Day is it likely they'd have arranged that a white guy from the Wirral won, rather than, say Teklehaimanot or Kudus?

(edited to remove typo)

 

[Dave Davenport]

Whilst a break might be allowed to go under certain circumstances, I think the idea that stage wins are fixed is complete poppycock. It's a massive thing for a mid level rider to win a stage of the TdF and any that get the chance of one want it desperately.

 

[jazzkat]

I think it possibly happens for points, KoM etc. I believe from what I've read that it used to happen in a lot of the crit racing at the end of the season.
I'd be surprised if it was a prevalent thing to happen in the big tours (apart from the points thing), there's too much at stake in terms of kudos and financially from sponsorship etc.
Just my 2p.

 

[gavroche]

If it was fixed, they would have left a French rider win on July 14th. I don't believe they agree before hand, a rider just takes his chances and go like hell.

 

[rich p]

Cobblers

 

[oldroadman]

It's hard to know where tp start addressing such a lot of poorly informed speculation, so I won't bother very much. NOBODY gets TdF (or any GT) stage wins easily. The GC leaders watch each other. Sometimes that works to the advantage of a break of people a long way down. In the distant past post-Tour crits were a show and the locals wanted a local rider to do well, but the expensive contracted Tour riders were expected to perform. Getting in a good break that MIGHT go all the way on any GT stage is incredibly difficult, the first hour or so is a madhouse and dangerous. And how did Geschke get connected with the Wirral, being he's German speaking? Any suggestion of "fixes" can be defined in a word. Begins with B and ends with cks

 

[DaveReading]

And how did Geschke get connected with the Wirral, being he's German speaking?

I think he goes there for his holidays - maybe he visits Stephen Cummings, winner of Stage 14, who was born there.

 

[rich p]

Cobblers

Begins with B and ends with cks

..or begins with c and ends with obblers

 

[mcshroom]

Or mix the two and it's Bobblers

 

[rich p]

Or mix the two and it's Bobblers

Or collocks, which has certain ring to it

 

[HF2300]

Getting in a good break that MIGHT go all the way on any GT stage is incredibly difficult, the first hour or so is a madhouse and dangerous.

To demonstrate the point, this was really well illustrated on the stage Geschke won - in the early part of the stage lots of breaks formed and were caught before the definitve break got away.

And how did Geschke get connected with the Wirral, being he's German speaking?

When did Geschke get connected with the Wirral, given I was clearly referring to Cummings?

 

[Globalti]

None of this explains to me how a relative unknown like Geschke can break away and sustain that pace for so long without being chased down by the power of the peloton or a group. I'm not insinuating drug abuse here, I'm merely wondering how, if the posts above are correct, the race allows this to happen. Maybe @HF2300 can explain to me in a little more detail the reasons why it worked for Geschke that day.

No guile intended, I'm simply curious.