How long does a journey have to be before you can call it 'touring'?

[Brains]

I would argue that asking people do do 100 miles in a day with luggage, then a crappy night sleep on a ferry and another 60 the next day might be a bit much for a 'newer rider'. You want to make it fun, not a chore.

I make it 120 miles on a bike between Manchester and Hull with two large bumpy bits in the middle.
I'd say that is way beyond the abilities of a casual rider, loaded with luggage, to do in a single day
That would be 14-16 hours of riding time, even a decent rider would not be under 12 hrs.

In reality the Manchester Hull section is three days riding, 30 miles first day, and under 50 miles for each of the other days, followed by a night on the ferry and then a 50 mile ride between Hook of Holland to Amsterdam as the 'big' day

 

[Ming the Merciless]

If you've got panniers, it's a tour.

If you have a frame bag it's bike packing.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

To me, "Touring" is a state of mind rather than a distance or length of time.

But I don't think that helps you!

I think you need to focus more on what people can realistically do (and be able to enjoy it!) more than the name of your adventure.

If you have 2 distinct ability levels, you could always plot 2 routes - one for the high mileage crowd, one for the less confident. Everybody meets up at the end of the day.

For Amsterdam, make sure your accommodation has secure storage for bikes. In the centre, a lot of the hotels are old and don't have the space.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

To me touring is riding a bike from place to place with one or more stops overnight and enough time to divert or stop to visit places along the way. The distance covered will vary by ability and bike load. As soon as it becomes a slog from place to place with no time for the stops or diversions, it's beginning to morph into something different.

So adjust the distances and terrain and stops to the ability of those you want to encourage. I did a tour last autumn with my wife, we covered between 20-40 miles per day. She loved it, not being a regular cyclist. It can be easy to get caught up in distance if you regularly knock out big miles. When touring it can be nice to dial it back and stop and smell the roses; with no time pressure.

 

[Andy in Germany]

If you think it's a tour, it's a tour. I call short trips to the next village with Beautiful Daughter a tour, because it sounds more exciting than 'Going to the shops'

Dont call it a tour. Call it a trip. Then it can be as long as you want

They're going to Amsterdam: people could get the wrong idea there...

 

[johnblack]

Two or four?

...at least 4, plus a trailer.

 

[johnblack]

If you have a frame bag it's bike packing.

Not sure I'm hip enough for that, I'll leave it to the the youth.

 

[Blue Hills]

If you've got panniers, it's a tour.

to the market and back?

on the original question, anything involving an overnight stay not on a means of transport.

 

[Blue Hills]

Definitely a tour...

A journey for pleasure in which several different places are visited

According to the Oxford Dictionary.

mm - maybe the Oxford should tighten up its definitions.

That would include a pub crawl would it not?

What's their definition of expedition?

 

[Crackle]

I'd say if it's one day it's a ride, overnight it's a tour but I'm not wedded to such definitions

 

[Blue Hills]

I make it 120 miles on a bike between Manchester and Hull with two large bumpy bits in the middle.
I'd say that is way beyond the abilities of a casual rider, loaded with luggage, to do in a single day
That would be 14-16 hours of riding time, even a decent rider would not be under 12 hrs.

In reality the Manchester Hull section is three days riding, 30 miles first day, and under 50 miles for each of the other days, followed by a night on the ferry and then a 50 mile ride between Hook of Holland to Amsterdam as the 'big' day

i think you and milkfloat have save the OP from a mutiny/him being found floating face down in the Humber with a bicycle accessory shoved up him.

 

[johnblack]

to the market and back?

on the original question, anything involving an overnight stay not on a means of transport.

Yeah, panniers are a badge that shows you're not going to rush, will be stowing a few extra k's over the back wheel and are not looking for a KOM or kudos, that's touring, however far you go.

 

[nickAKA]

i think you and milkfloat have save the OP from a mutiny/him being found floating face down in the Humber with a bicycle accessory shoved up him.

LOL maybe, maybe not - the 'plan' is to get the greener tourists prepared first! The first distance challenge will be Manchester - Blackpool next month, most of the lads have done that before so it shouldn't be an issue. If I can then get them to do the Manchester 100 too, happy days, it all builds confidence in yourself.

As regards the Manchester-Hull leg we're on the right side of Manchester (open to debate ) and the only real climb of any note on the whole route is a local one; I'll work on getting them all over it at least once prior to the journey... if necessary I'll put all the luggage in the car and get SWMBO to meet us at the top so they can do it unladen

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/30176163

I haven't tweeked this route at all, it's as ridewithGPS spat it out so subject to change.

I'm considering AirBNB for accomodation over in Holland but haven't delved into it too deep yet. The public transport is good (plus bikes, obv) so slightly out of town should be fine.

Thanks for all your comments, very helpful.

 

[Brains]

That is still over 100 miles, in a day, for inexperienced cyclists, on loaded bikes.

From experience, the pace initially will be around 12mph, by lunch time you will be down to 10mph and by late afternoon, 8mph
100 miles is 10hrs peddling time, add stops and you are looking at 12hrs plus

I think the most I have ever got from a group ride with inexperienced cyclists on a tour is 60 miles in a day, anything much over 45 miles is a bonus

I'd break Manchester --> Hull into two days.

 

[Brains]

You could use the Dunwich Dynamo as a test run.
It's free to enter and its on the 13th July
110 flat miles.
3,000+ cyclists take part each year

If you study the Strava heat maps over the years I think you will find the average time is around 12hrs (unloaded).
That includes a lot of very fit and experienced people on kevlar bikes (and a few on penny farthings, Boris bikes and Bromptons)

https://www.strava.com/clubs/101041