How long do BB30 bearings last?

[Dogtrousers]

3k and no issues so far.

Well, 3k is only a couple of miles or so ...

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I'll probably be laughed at for this, but cup and cone BBs were extremely easy to service, the cups and axles were made out of super hard stuff that never seemed to wear. What's not to like?

All that is true but you forgot to mention the poor sealing, if any.
Yes, they were easy to service but they required an imperfect spanner arrangement which was prone to rounding off and, they had poor seals, which made the service requirement frequent. Cartridge BBs were a big step up from cup-and-cone.

 

[mjr]

Yes, they were easy to service but they required an imperfect spanner arrangement which was prone to rounding off and, they had poor seals, which made the service requirement frequent. Cartridge BBs were a big step up from cup-and-cone.

They didn't necessarily require "an imperfect spanner arrangement". You can get adjustable cups with regular hex nut faces.

Meanwhile, many cartridge BBs use fragile fins using specialist sockets so you can't check it's still tight without removing the flipping cranks and, when time comes to remove it, plastic fins are prone to breaking off and the longer time between opening the BB allows more shoot to collect in the shell. The step up is not that big.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

They didn't necessarily require "an imperfect spanner arrangement". You can get adjustable cups with regular hex nut faces.

Meanwhile, many cartridge BBs use fragile fins using specialist sockets so you can't check it's still tight without removing the flipping cranks and, when time comes to remove it, plastic fins are prone to breaking off and the longer time between opening the BB allows more shoot to collect in the shell. The step up is not that big.

Well, you can't complain about specialist splined sockets and then claim that the other arrangement is better.
Firstly, they don't come loose in use if you torqued them correctly and followed the instructions of which side to fit first.
But let's look at the spanner. For a cup-and-cone BB you need a pin spanner (a special one since a standard divider type fouls against the axle) and a large, special flat spanner. On the other side you have the other flat special spanner with the hole and two flat sections in the hole. This one is particularly problematic in that it is difficult to hold flat against the very narrow BB flange and not damage the spanner under high torque. Effectively you need three special tools, none of which can be attached to a torque wrench.
For a cartridge BB you have one socket, which can attach to a torque wrench and which can be clamped onto the BB so that it doesn't slip out when removing stubborn BBs. The latter is infinitely better.

 

[Dogtrousers]

All that is true but you forgot to mention the poor sealing, if any.
Yes, they were easy to service but they required an imperfect spanner arrangement which was prone to rounding off and, they had poor seals, which made the service requirement frequent. Cartridge BBs were a big step up from cup-and-cone.

You're probably right. But not so right that I'd bother going to all the hassle of getting the fixed cup out of a frame to convert it to use a cartridge.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

You're probably right. But not so right that I'd bother going to all the hassle of getting the fixed cup out of a frame to convert it to use a cartridge.

Agreed, but it is something I'd think about when having to replace the entire BB. But that's just me.
If on the other hand the bike is about period authenticity, I'd obviously look for the real McCoy.
Upgrading for the right reason is sensible.

 

[pclay]

10,000 miles and no problems with my BB30. I just re-apply grease about every 3,000 miles.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

10,000 miles and no problems with my BB30. I just re-apply grease about every 3,000 miles.

How do you do that?

 

[mjr]

Well, you can't complain about specialist splined sockets and then claim that the other arrangement is better.
Firstly, they don't come loose in use if you torqued them correctly and followed the instructions of which side to fit first.

I agree but others don't.

But let's look at the spanner. For a cup-and-cone BB you need a pin spanner (a special one since a standard divider type fouls against the axle) and a large, special flat spanner. On the other side you have the other flat special spanner with the hole and two flat sections in the hole.

Neither of those are needed, if you fit an adjustable cup with hex flats and the fixed cup is staying fixed (as it usually does, hence the name). You just need an open spanner for the hex flats and a c-spanner for the lockring (which are also useful for other parts on many bikes with cup-and-cone BBs) - and for initial fitting, you can put a torque wrench socket over the hex flats, although the torque values for cup-and-cone BBs don't seem quite as reliable as cartridge ones, so the open spanner to adjust it during shakedown is still useful.

So, in summary: no special tools required and you can still use a torque wrench if you like, plus it can be adjusted or checked without removing cranks. Using regular workshop tools without any special sockets is a big benefit of cup-and-cone.

For a cartridge BB you have one socket, which can attach to a torque wrench and which can be clamped onto the BB so that it doesn't slip out when removing stubborn BBs. The latter is infinitely better.

How does the official Shimano tool for the most common BB cartridge fit to a torque wrench or clamp onto the BB? If you're picking tools or parts to make things easy, it's fair to pick the cup-and-cone ones to make that easy too, so pin spanners and special spanners are irrelevant and cartridges only have a slight advantage IMO.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I agree but others don't.


Neither of those are needed, if you fit an adjustable cup with hex flats and the fixed cup is staying fixed (as it usually does, hence the name). You just need an open spanner for the hex flats and a c-spanner for the lockring (which are also useful for other parts on many bikes with cup-and-cone BBs) - and for initial fitting, you can put a torque wrench socket over the hex flats, although the torque values for cup-and-cone BBs don't seem quite as reliable as cartridge ones, so the open spanner to adjust it during shakedown is still useful.

So, in summary: no special tools required and you can still use a torque wrench if you like, plus it can be adjusted or checked without removing cranks. Using regular workshop tools without any special sockets is a big benefit of cup-and-cone.


How does the official Shimano tool for the most common BB cartridge fit to a torque wrench or clamp onto the BB? If you're picking tools or parts to make things easy, it's fair to pick the cup-and-cone ones to make that easy too, so pin spanners and special spanners are irrelevant and cartridges only have a slight advantage IMO.

You are right. I don't know why I brought the torque wrench thing into the cup-and-cone scenario.

The fixed cup remains a challenge though. The flange is just too narrow for comfort, but agreed, the times I had to work with them was to remove them for replacement. I had to make a gadget that locked the spanner onto it and sometimes I even welded a piece of flat bar to it to remove really bad ones. I suppose because it is fixed, it remains in place for a long time and do rust on.

As for the official tool, the PRO one in question actually has a 24mm hex on the other side IIRC. I used a Parktool one that fitted directly onto a 3/8th square for use with a torque wrench, but the best one is made by BBB. It has a feature that fixes it to the BB via the centre axle bolt so that it cannot slip out and you can apply high torque.

These problems mostly show up when you have a workshop where bikes come in off the street, torqued by Godzilla himself. A sensitive mechanic won't do it and thus don't come up against these problems.

Just this weekend I had to remove the back wheel on my car. It was recently fitted with new tyres so I know exactly who overtightened the wheel bolts. I will destroy the car's supplied tool to get them off.

 

[mjr]

I used a Parktool one that fitted directly onto a 3/8th square for use with a torque wrench, but the best one is made by BBB. It has a feature that fixes it to the BB via the centre axle bolt so that it cannot slip out and you can apply high torque.

I agree. That BBB tool also inspired my solution to the last cartridge I suffered where most of the plastic fins broke before it moved (no idea what torque was used when fitting - I didn't fit it): I sharpened an old cheap socket, tapped it into the plastic face a bit (not far - there were still some bits of fins left) and used a long bolt and nut to clamp it onto the BB axle, which was enough to get it moving and out.

These problems mostly show up when you have a workshop where bikes come in off the street, torqued by Godzilla himself.

Presumably, the bikes weren't brought in by Godzilla, else the green skin and tail would have tipped you off!

Just this weekend I had to remove the back wheel on my car. It was recently fitted with new tyres so I know exactly who overtightened the wheel bolts. I will destroy the car's supplied tool to get them off.

It's really hard to avoid workmen errors sometimes... or do the wheels have an innovative new type of fitting and they overtightened them to try to avoid a BB30-style squeak?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Presumably, the bikes weren't brought in by Godzilla, else the green skin and tail would have tipped you off!

Naah. Godzilla always gets his petite girlfriend to bring his bike in, that way you don't expect the worse and gradually break all the tools in the shop before dusting off the arc welder.

 

[Svendo]

10,000 miles and no problems with my BB30. I just re-apply grease about every 3,000 miles.

Out of interest is it a plastic or metal frame?

 

[pclay]

Out of interest is it a plastic or metal frame?

Its a metal frame. I don't know if BB30 performs differently with different frame materials??

Its a Cannondale synapse Alu. The most problems I have with the bottom bracket is a few creaks, and that's when another application of grease is required to make it silent again.

 

[uclown2002]

10,000 miles and no problems with my BB30. I just re-apply grease about every 3,000 miles.

How do you do that?

Its a metal frame. I don't know if BB30 performs differently with different frame materials??

Its a Cannondale synapse Alu. The most problems I have with the bottom bracket is a few creaks, and that's when another application of grease is required to make it silent again.

How do you do that?