Hoo Peninsula Sunday 20th May

[ianrauk]

That happened to me soon after I started cycling slightly longer distances, when I was still riding my hybrid. It was with a local group and they soon left me behind, but none of them was brave (or kind) enough to actually say to me, look maybe this isn't the ride for you just yet. They did wait for me now and again, but with rather bad grace. It was a very dispiriting experience, and even though I could keep up with them easily now I wouldn't want to cycle with such an unfriendly lot.

As you know, we are not the type of people who would be so ungracious or friendly about something like that. We would change the ride to suit.

Maybe we should invent a CC speed scale: Pootle, Bimble, Touring, Brisk, Speedy, Superspeedy, Chaingang?

This is a jolly good idea

 

[Sittingduck]

Maybe we should invent a CC speed scale: Pootle, Bimble, Touring, Brisk, Speedy, Superspeedy, Chaingang?

That's a really good idea. Even going one step further, to advertise a predicted rolling avg!

 

[her_welshness]

Indeed, I think that ride killed that poor little fellow. Did he ever join another ride? And who could forget the good Doctors deraillieur/Wheel coming together episode?

The Super Speedy thing. As far as I know there has never been a ride described as super speedy in informal rides, only Speedy... of which was a once a month ride set up for those that wanted to push themselves a little harder, faster & further (100 miles plus) rather then a days pootle. It made no bones as to what they were/are and at the end of the day these type of rides are certainly not for new/inexperienced cyclists.

The last thing we would have wanted is for someone to come along and find they are out of their depth. It's not fair on them and not fair on the ride.

No, that is fair enough. I am happy when rides are correctly advertised. My mate Ollie (from the Greenwich parish) does these 100 milers, which he advertises as FAST. Its upfront.

However, there are two main concerns I have:

1. The gentle joshing online that exists which can lead to confusion and miscommunication about what the ride poses for those in store. This then puts the fear into people who then seem disinclined to go. That's a shame.

2. Bullying on the ride itself. This has happened to myself and others and includes a variety of behaviours. Say you have a newish person in the group but is a well established cyclist and deliberately or not deliberately goes ahead of the Ride Leader. The Ride Leader feels obliged to up the pace. The ride spreads out and eventually people drop off the pace. They then feel they are holding up the ride. In this case its the fault of the leader who has not kept that person in check. I have been told (by a friend of mine) that when one lass dropped out on a ride (on an informal ride) then the super-speedy folk who had been pushing the pace said 'great - now we can go faster now she has gone'. I would have hoped that people on that ride would have challenged their attitude.

The CC speed rating sounds like a WIN User13710 - may it be part of our constitution?!

 

[potsy]

TBF - we have postponed/cancelled one or two this year because of dire weather forecasts, and people who did venture out anyway confirmed that we were wise to do so!

OTOH, we have also been out in dire weather a few times and survived.

No excuse this week over large areas of the UK - sunshine every day!

Don't tell 'em that CJ, trying to keep up our tough northern reputation
Saying that, you're not really northern are you? Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy

 

[ianrauk]

1. The gentle joshing online that exists which can lead to confusion and miscommunication about what the ride poses for those in store. This then puts the fear into people who then seem disinclined to go. That's a shame.

2. Bullying on the ride itself. This has happened to myself and others and includes a variety of behaviours. Say you have a newish person in the group but is a well established cyclist and deliberately or not deliberately goes ahead of the Ride Leader. The Ride Leader feels obliged to up the pace. The ride spreads out and eventually people drop off the pace. They then feel they are holding up the ride. In this case its the fault of the leader who has not kept that person in check. I have been told (by a friend of mine) that when one lass dropped out on a ride (on an informal ride) then the super-speedy folk who had been pushing the pace said 'great - now we can go faster now she has gone'. I would have hoped that people on that ride would have challenged their attitude.

The CC speed rating sounds like a WIN User13710 - may it be part of our constitution?!

1: Yes I can see what you are getting at re the gentle joshing. But it is usually made very clear as to what is expected on rides and people only have to ask (and have done)

2: I was on the ride you are talking about, (It wasn't one of our Speedy Rides) and know all the people involved. I didn't hear about what was said until afterwards. You know me, you know I would have said something if I had heard something like that, especially as it was about someone I consider a good friend (and a brilliant cyclist to boot). But the ride continued as was and certainly no speedier then it had been.

 

[ColinJ]

Don't tell 'em that CJ, trying to keep up our tough northern reputation
Saying that, you're not really northern are you? Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy

Well, half my genes came from the Highlands of Scotland - that's pretty far north by UK standards!

That's a really good idea. Even going one step further, to advertise a predicted rolling avg!

So what happens when somebody thinks that they can achieve that speed but starts to suffer on the ride, or there are mechanical problems which cause delays and then people put the hammer down to try to reach that average speed? Do you stay with the slow riders and grumble, or say 'tough' and dump them?

You either have to go at the speed of the slowest or you have to be prepared to drop people who can't keep up, but dropping people isn't what forum rides are about!

If I were fit enough to drop people and wanted a quick ride, I would cherry-pick quick riders and PM them to organise it privately, or better still - join a racing club, which after all is what they are for!

 

[Aperitif]

Too many categories can also lead to confusion. Pootle is what happens in a confined area where your ride to the meet is possibly more than the 'ride around'. AKA Sunday London Ride.
The moment a destination is mooted all sorts of factors come into play. Traditionally, clubs are/were 'local' organisations and drew their membership from like-minded souls of the locality. Obviously this means that start time and other transport logistics are minimised - naturally. The internet clubhouse doesn't have a location.
Then there is the speed aspect. Nothing wrong with being able to cycle competently at speed as part of a group, and sometimes on a ride of that nature it is easy. At others, difficult. Riders who do that don't necessarily want to spend their limited time away from the grindstone rolling around at what they might deem 'half-pace'. Fair enough.
All these things have been alluded to in the previous posts but Ian hit the nail on the head when he observes that a mismatch is unfair in both directions. Most people actually realise this, although some don't in my experience and just make life uncomfortable - for themselves and others.
Most of all, I don't think anyone wants to be elitist but check out club runs and see what they have to offer - to get some idea of the groups. Rimas has had some outings with the Paragon (I think?) and he didn't find that much fun! (And he's no slouch!)
2d worth. Hello her_leekness

 

[her_welshness]

1: Yes I can see what you are getting at re the gentle joshing. But it is usually made very clear as to what is expected on rides and people only have to ask (and have done)

2: I was on the ride you are talking about, (It wasn't one of our Speedy Rides) and know all the people involved. I didn't hear about what was said until afterwards. You know me, you know I would have said something if I had heard something like that, especially as it was about someone I consider a good friend (and a brilliant cyclist to boot). But the ride continued as was and certainly no speedier then it had been.

I understand what you are saying Ian. I hope that I am not being a dog with a bone about this - but it is a perception thing. I care about how much it looks as well as what it is. I know that as someone who respects the ride and the ride leader that if you had heard anything that was untoward that you would have spoken out - I know how honest you are .

There is also the attitude/behavioural antics of folk on ride. They simply cannot see the difference between a bimble or a brisk run. At the heart of it is utter selfishness and a failure to understand other people's abilities. This extends to the passive-aggressive person at the back who can keep up with the ride but will choose not do so.

Hello Martin, my little muse bouche

 

[martint235]

Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.

I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.

Bit like Big Martin's only a pretend southern softy

I'm not a pretend southern softy, I'm still as northern as the day I was born!!!

 

[Sittingduck]

So what happens when somebody thinks that they can achieve that speed but starts to suffer on the ride, or there are mechanical problems which cause delays and then people put the hammer down to try to reach that average speed? Do you stay with the slow riders and grumble, or say 'tough' and dump them?

You either have to go at the speed of the slowest or you have to be prepared to drop people who can't keep up, but dropping people isn't what forum rides are about!

I don't recall suggesting it was... Just that giving folk an idea of the anticipated speed might be helpful that's all.

 

[User10571]

Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.

I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.

It'll be a shame if that happens, Martin.
Reading this makes me realise how a thread like this can bimble along (Sorry, I'm unsure of the rolling average of bimble) quite nicely, with people bantering as much as they would in RL, and yet it's so easily derailed by an unassociated individual walking past the room and tossing in a grenade before walking away.

Fragile.

Innit?

 

[Aperitif]

Considering how many members of Cyclechat there are, there are very few people willing to organise rides. We are predominantly cyclists and being out on our bikes is our raison d'etre. Reading a thread like this, you do realise why so few people are willing to organise a ride because at the end of the day it's really not worth the hassle.

I will continue to ride my bike. I may even ask some people if they wish to accompany me but I can't see me organising an "open invitation" ride again.


I'm not a pretend southern softy, I'm still as northern as the day I was born!!!

You'll laugh! I think you have had a 'surprise response' to your innocent little thread (my posts excluded of course because you know I don't mean any of it, you tart )

Actually, SoftM, was that 'wheat beer shandy' you were drinking the other Christmas...best not tell any of your pie-fancying mates like potsy - he'll only want one.

Sometimes people like to ride slower, quietly, sometimes quickly. I think I prefer the ride, stop for fuel, ride, stop, ride etc - with maybe only one 'longer' break if necessary. Sometimes it is chit-chat, sometimes not, and no ride can accomodate everyone's foibles...(nice foibles you have, Anthony!)

 

[her_welshness]

I don't recall suggesting it was... Just that giving folk an idea of the anticipated speed might be helpful that's all.

I think both your points were really good. I know they sometimes do an average speed on some of the advertised LCC rides. As we all know with mechanicals and other issues most folk are happy to wait. As ColinJ points out, some can start the ride thinking that its within their means. Bloody hell, have been in that situation. But then half the ride bailed so I didn't feel so bad then.

 

[martint235]

It is a shame but life is so much easier if I say "User10571/Ian, do you fancy riding out to Cooling for a spot of lunch". All parties know what to expect and I think we'd have a good time

 

[User10571]

It is a shame but life is so much easier if I say "User10571/Ian, do you fancy riding out to Cooling for a spot of lunch". All parties know what to expect and I think we'd have a good time

I know totally where you're coming from M.
As an (not entirely) aside, there is a dearth of good ride leaders - I hear this often lamented by the local LCC groups.