Hill intervals: Improve your climbing

[Ningishzidda]

Or on the turbo trainer to increase power and aerobic performance. Or by losing weight. All help going up hills. You will not learn how to climb hills though by riding on the flat. You can train to be a stronger cyclist in many different departments in many different ways but to learn ones style and own technique, one would have to learn by doing. Not simulating.

The turbo trainer technique is a oddity. Simply put the front wheel up on a box and use a step ladder to get on and off the bike

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

The turbo trainer technique is a oddity. Simply put the front wheel up on a box and use a step ladder to get on and off the bike

Though i hear it changes the angle of the bike in relation to your body, hence working your muscles slightly differently. In other words simulating the angle of a climb.

 

[black'n'yellow]

You will not learn how to climb hills though by riding on the flat.

Why not? We've already established that you don't need to ride hills to get better at riding hills.

 

[Rob3rt]

To be clear, I am not arguining that there is no place for riding hills, of course there it. I am just stating that it is not essential and you can train very effectivelly without. In fact before being pulled sideways, I was commenting mainly in relation to the following:

Don't see how that works: once you're 'on top of' a big gear it requires much less effort to maintain speed than it did to get there, whereas on a steep incline if you slack off you slow down pretty much immediately. If you're doing stop/start intervals in a big gear, that'd be a better simulation, wouldnt it?

In true accelerations wattage GrasB is right, if you continued to accelerate then the wattage would hold.

But a hill would be preferable as you suggest, but because you would be more likely to hold a consistent wattage on it because the fluctuations in load would be less as there would be a constant braking force. Eg. Gravity. And if your doing intervals, consistency in output is key.

Clarifying that following the initial acceleration (as there is at the start of any interval) and a typical overshoot of power that comes with the step input, once oscillations have cleared that a constant power output would result, if this power is a relevant degree (as set via your gearing) then you can train as intensely as on a hill, but you will be going much faster. The point I was trying to make is that you are working on the power needed to maintain that speed rather than accelerate up to it, therefore constant acceleration is not required. Going up hill, gravity dominates, on the flat aerodynamic drag dominates, it does not matter, XX Watts is XX Watts regardless of the force you are overcoming in the process of generating it.

 

[deanE]

Regardless of riding position (which can change on the flat, as well as on hills - mine frequently does),

Marla Steb suggests that you use 20% more energy standing up. (http://www.marlastreb.com/BMCenturyTrainingProgram.pdf) What riding position would you suggest adopting when tackling hills in the saddle?

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Why not? We've already established that you don't need to ride hills to get better at riding hills.

Established? Shared an opinion.

We can all approach training in our own way but i for one wouldn't be training for climbing related events by riding in a different manner. As Montage says, if you are training to eat 100 pickles then best trying to eat a 100 pickles. Or something to that effect. No point in trying to eat something similar in size that tastes and smells different because, come pickle eating time, you might find that the smell of pickles is different to how imagined. God, you might even not like the taste!!

Now we were talking about pickles right?

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Marla Steb suggests that you use 20% more energy standing up. (http://www.marlastreb.com/BMCenturyTrainingProgram.pdf) What riding position would you suggest adopting when tackling hills in the saddle?

In the saddle works for me. Allows me to regulate the power and settle in better. Only stand up if i need to alter muscle use or loosen things.

 

[black'n'yellow]

Marla Steb suggests that you use 20% more energy standing up. (http://www.marlastreb.com/BMCenturyTrainingProgram.pdf) What riding position would you suggest adopting when tackling hills in the saddle?

There is no single riding position. It all depends on the climb and whatever you feel like doing at the time. In a race situation, a lot will also depend on what others may be doing.

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

To be clear, I am not arguining that there is no place for riding hills, of course there it. I am just stating that it is not essential and you can train very effectivelly without. In fact before being pulled sideways, I was commenting mainly in relation to the following:





Clarifying that following the initial acceleration (as there is at the start of any interval) and a typical overshoot of power that comes with the step input, once oscillations have cleared that a constant power output would result, if this power is a relevant degree (as set via your gearing) then you can train as intensely as on a hill, but you will be going much faster. The point I was trying to make is that you are working on the power needed to maintain that speed rather than accelerate up to it, therefore constant acceleration is not required. Going up hill, gravity dominates, on the flat aerodynamic drag dominates, it does not matter, XX Watts is XX Watts regardless of the force you are overcoming in the process of generating it.

Might you sweat more at 8mph up a 20% gradient than 25 mph on the flat with wind blowing in your face? Or even overheat more causing heart rate increase and general discomfort.

 

[Rob3rt]

Might you sweat more at 8mph up a 20% gradient than 25 mph on the flat with wind blowing in your face? Or even overheat more causing heart rate increase and general discomfort.

You might, which is exactly why HR is not a fool proof measurement of intensity. Your argument here, is basically one of the main arguments for using a power meter!

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

You might, which is exactly why HR is not a fool proof measurement of intensity. Your argument here, is basically one of the main arguments for using a power meter!

I meant that that was in fact a difference and that maybe in itself is worth training on the hills. I shall agree to disagree on this point though pal.
There is no one way to do anything. Just lots of ways to do lots of things.

 

[GrasB]

Marla Steb suggests that you use 20% more energy standing up. (http://www.marlastreb.com/BMCenturyTrainingProgram.pdf) What riding position would you suggest adopting when tackling hills in the saddle?

This makes the assumption that consuming energy is your problem when you're standing up. Normally it's short term oxygen supply that's the problem. Standing up actually generally means more of your muscle mass being used is producing power aerobically, in short term power production this is actually a GOOD thing as long as you know you can drop to active recovery power latter on the ride.

 

[Andrew_P]

Personally speaking I think you guys who race or are training to race have forgotten what it is like to be a mere mortal. Hills enable me to push myself much harder than I am able to push myself on the flat, I cannot take a breather like I can on the flat when it gets slightly out of my comfort zone.

For me hills are defintely harder excercise, note I didn't use the word training I am not cycling to train for racing or any particular event but I don't want to take the walk of shame on hills nor reach the top of the hill with my lungs bursting out of my chest.

 

[just jim]

Hope I'm not behind any of you on a hill after all those pickled eggs.

I say pickled eggs, because it makes no difference really. I can train on gherkins. Same difference.

 

[GrasB]

Personally speaking I think you guys who race or are training to race have forgotten what it is like to be a mere mortal. Hills enable me to push myself much harder than I am able to push myself on the flat, I cannot take a breather like I can on the flat when it gets slightly out of my comfort zone.

For me hills are defintely harder excercise, note I didn't use the word training I am not cycling to train for racing or any particular event but I don't want to take the walk of shame on hills nor reach the top of the hill with my lungs bursting out of my chest.

I'd paraphrase this down to - "Most people don't have the motivation to train properly."