Hi-Viz / reflective - pros & cons.

[RoubaixCube]

I got a set of the Ortlieb Hi Viz panniers... in black.

But wait until it's dark and a light hits them - they are very visible.

they also cost £142 just for one. Personally I would rather just get cheaper panniers and either try to attach more lighting or reflective strips to them.

but fair play to you if you prefer the quality of Ortlieb's

 

[Accy cyclist]

Well they shouldn't! I know people with poor eyesight exist because I can't see well enough to drive without glasses. It is rightly a requirement to be able to see well enough to drive and we should disqualify those who can't, including those who won't wear their prescribed glasses, not make everyone else dress funny.

I noticed you didn't answer when your last eye test was...

My last eye test was about 10 months ago. I mentioned restricted eye sight because i can't see out my right eye, yet i'm perfectly legal to drive. Man in black or grey coming at me from the right stands less chance than fluoro man. I'm presuming you thought i was on about those who wont wear glasses out of vanity or something?

 

[Katherine]

As said above, it's not just about being seen, it's being seen early enough to give the driver time to process and react. I wear a mixture of bright colours with some reflective additions. I've been told that when I wear my Sam Brown belt, people see me a lot earlier.
Still had a few close calls and near misses but always in the daytime.

 

[Levo-Lon]

My mother still drives after loseing one eye to cancer..its the left , the left side of her car has parking damage ,i dont think she should drive..my eyesight is poor withought glasses..i would struggle to drive at night without specs ..

pet hate of mine is unlit cyclists and pedestrians in dark clothing..give us half a chance to see you ffs

 

[Julia9054]

The legal eyesight standard for driving is a joke.
I went for my latest sight test last October, and according to the Optician, my eyesight WITHOUT glasses is ok for driving. I found that incredible as I wouldn't dream of going out on the road without corrected vision.
My contact lenses are +2.25 for the left eye, and +1.75 for the right. That sounds like bad eyesight to me, but apparently I can legally go out on public roads in a 44 tonne lorry without glasses or contacts!

Me too. (+2.25 &+1.00) Terrifying, isn't it!

 

[steveindenmark]

So many people are wearing high viz now that any use it may have had has long passed, it has become just another visual item people are so used to coming across that it fades into the general surroundings. Rather like daytime running lights should their use ever become widespread.

That is so easy to disprove but is another one of those anti viz vest lines that is thrown out all the time as part of an arguement without any thought.

If they "fade into the general surroundings" how do you know they are there? With that reasoning people may have stopped using them and you wouldnt know.

In reality, people who dont wear them blend into the general surroundings.

But it is their free choice to wear them or not. Neither group should be critisised for their choice.

 

[Sara_H]

It's very simple. There is no evidence that high viz increases cyclists safety. There is anecdotal evidence that in some circimstances (low lying sun) it can make cyclists less safe.
There is some evidence that retro reflectives can improve cyclist visibility.

With this in mind - make your choice. I don't wear hi viz because I tend to dress for the destination rather than the journey. I have a retro reflective thing in my pannier that I can slip on over my clothing if I foind myself cycling in dark clothing at night.

 

[Drago]

But it is their free choice to wear them or not. Neither group should be critisised for their choice.

This is true. I would not criticise someone for simply making a choice.

However, when someone makes a choice based upon a particular belief, and all attempts to try and prove or uphold that belief have been scientific failures, then that belief becomes akin to Sun worship, or a Flat Earth, then I think we're similarly entitled to point out to people that they're simply wrong.

Not everyone is as well balanced as you Stevie, and many will put blind faith in hi vis in the belief it makes the safer. That is simply a faulty premise, and reliance on such a belief to keep themselves safe could actually further endanger the person, so it's actually in their best interests that we inform them.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

As said above, it's not just about being seen, it's being seen early enough to give the driver time to process and react. I wear a mixture of bright colours with some reflective additions. I've been told that when I wear my Sam Brown belt, people see me a lot earlier.
Still had a few close calls and near misses but always in the daytime.

QED. Attentive drivers who are looking see you, regardless of what you wear. Inattentive drivers who are not looking don't see you, regardless of what you wear.

Who needs to change their behaviour? The cyclists who don't wear space lemon or the inattentive drivers who can't be arsed to look.

And as to the 'early enough to process and react' , that logic is so flawed in the real world as to be a matter of 'oi way!'

 

[mjr]

The legal eyesight standard for driving is a joke.

It is very weak and I think it should be tightened but I remember from my brief spell in that range that I could still identify a person whether or not they were wearing a hi-viz Yellow Star.

Man in black or grey coming at me from the right stands less chance than fluoro man.

But still enough chance?

I'm presuming you thought i was on about those who wont wear glasses out of vanity or something?

No, I don't much care why someone's eyesight falls below the required standard.

As said above, it's not just about being seen, it's being seen early enough to give the driver time to process and react.

Early enough, but not so early that they process you before they can process enough the surrounding environment, else when they process that, they may dismiss you as already-dealt-with and their adjustment to deal with what else they noticed may put you back at risk.

I wear a mixture of bright colours with some reflective additions. I've been told that when I wear my Sam Brown belt, people see me a lot earlier.
Still had a few close calls and near misses but always in the daytime.

Which is consistent with reflectives helping a bit at night (but I still feel you can put enough on the cycle) but not in the daytime and bright colours never helping!

pet hate of mine is unlit cyclists and pedestrians in dark clothing..give us half a chance to see you ffs

Do you rant about all those black/grey lampposts, dull brick buildings, kerbstones, roads, trees, fences, hedges? Would you really like to see http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2007/12/...council-paint-everything-else-luminous-green/ become reality?

But it is their free choice to wear them or not. Neither group should be critisised for their choice.

You mean not post trash like:

You should tell that to the woman in black who walks her black dog a 5 am in a village near me.

If she carries on doing it she will be so cool. In a fridge.

I cant understand people who put vanity before safety.

?

But I don't really agree. I think the lemons should be criticised for their deeds supporting the motoring lobby in their quest to transfer responsibility to EVERYTHING ELSE for the death and destruction that substandard motorists inflict on our country every single day. Stop being complicit in their externalisation: just dress in ordinary clothes and push for motoring to be modified to address its problems.

Act now, before wearing ordinary clothes is seen as a radical protest

 

[GrumpyGregry]

But I don't really agree. I think the lemons should be criticised for their deeds supporting the motoring lobby in their quest to transfer responsibility to EVERYTHING ELSE for the death and destruction that substandard motorists inflict on our country every single day. Stop being complicit in their externalisation: just dress in ordinary clothes and push for motoring to be modified to address its problems.

Act now, before wearing ordinary clothes is seen as a radical protest

^This.

 

[RoubaixCube]

Not sure where you're looking but they're £142 per pair on Wiggle. You can get them cheaper via Amazon.

My bad - I was looking around for a price - saw a picture of two but thought it was only for illustrative purposes. I didnt actually realise they came in a pair. £142 for a pair is too expensive but for £100 its within the average price imo. my Altura Urban 20's cost me somewhere between £35-45 each. I think i bought the first one for £35 on sale then more for a second one was i was prepping for a long ride that never happened.

 

[summerdays]

My bad - I was looking around for a price - saw a picture of two but thought it was only for illustrative purposes. I didnt actually realise they came in a pair. £142 for a pair is too expensive but for £100 its within the average price imo. my Altura Urban 20's cost me somewhere between £35-45 each. I think i bought the first one for £35 on sale then more for a second one was i was prepping for a long ride that never happened.

For me I spent £40 one a basic not fancy name pannier set when I first returned to cycling 8 years ago, which lasted a year. Then I paid about £80 for a pair of Ortliebs which are still going strong all those years later.... Based on number of days usage they are the cheaper pair!

 

[Levo-Lon]

Do you rant about all those black/grey lampposts, dull brick buildings, kerbstones, roads, trees, fences, hedges? Would you really like to see http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2007/12/...council-paint-everything-else-luminous-green/ become reality?

It wasnt a rant..i just think dark unlit road and no lights or anything refective..
i dont care if they don want to be seen but they ruin the car when you kill them..
If i ever see a house lamp post tree or fooking kerb wandering in the road ill let you know..

 

[Sara_H]

My mother still drives after loseing one eye to cancer..its the left , the left side of her car has parking damage ,i dont think she should drive..my eyesight is poor withought glasses..i would struggle to drive at night without specs ..

pet hate of mine is unlit cyclists and pedestrians in dark clothing..give us half a chance to see you ffs

Are you allowed to drive with only one eye? Has she notified the DVLA?