Helmets and falling off....

[Profpointy]

You have read the linked article I take it?

No of course not :-)

EDIT : against me better judgement I have read it now. Better than some but no evidence - just "an expert said" , then some facts not related to the conclusion. To be fair it was just a newspaper article. And no predictably, it doesn't mention any of my questions

 

[classic33]

Can't tell if thats saying helmets are good or bad?? Lol. Either way, down to preference!

Consultants view on them. The person who treats the injuries when in A&E.

 

[classic33]

Can't tell if thats saying helmets are good or bad?? Lol. Either way, down to preference!

Which is something many on here have been saying for a long while now.

 

[classic33]

And we know that they use anecdata, ask the nurses who work with them.

Me I was told that the helmet actually made the injury worse, at the A&E. But shouldn't have bothered wearing one if I was going to remove it before being treated.
He doesn't say that they will save you from head injury. He's used, it seems, what he has worked on for that piece.
Its a piece in the Irish Indepenent. http://www.independent.ie/life/city...doesnt-work-hospital-consultant-31398352.html

 

[screenman]

Given you have to replace cycle crash helmets every three years, that would double the waste of money unless you're really prone to crashing.

You seem very concerned with money, personally I do not see it as a waste.

 

[ufkacbln]

Consultants view on them. The person who treats the injuries when in A&E.

Another Thudguard moment?

The head of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine (the Professional organisation of Casuaty Dosctors)

It is a pleasure to support the 'Thudguard' in my capacity as President of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine. Any device which helps to reduce the number of head injuries sustained by young children each year is most welcome

If we accept the advice of a single Doctor as evidence for wearing a helmet, then surely the Thudguard becomes even more important when their professional organisation endorses it?

 

[mjr]

You seem very concerned with money, personally I do not see it as a waste.

Crash helmets seem to be unscrupulous manufacturers harming cycling in order to steal our cake money.

 

[mjr]

http://www.independent.ie/life/city...doesnt-work-hospital-consultant-31398352.html

OK, the newspaper article is almost a full house of crash helmet mispromotion bingo right there, including the proponent being a cyclist himself, saying it's a belief and so on and so on... but let's drill down into the key bit quoted:

In 26 out of 32 secondary impact cases, helmets would have reduced the cyclists’ head injury by around 75pc, the research cited by the European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) shows."

I looked that one up and the source seems to be K. Fingleton, M. Gilchrist (2013), UCA Dublin, "A study of the protective capabilities of cycle-helmets in collisions involving motor-vehicles based on computer simulated reconstructions" which doesn't seem to be available online, does it? It doesn't even appear on http://www.ucd.ie/eacollege/mme/staff/academicstaff/professormichaelgilchrist/staff,98866,en.html or http://researchrepository.ucd.ie/browse?type=author&value=Gilchrist, M. D. and there's no Fingleton on their staff list or the author list. UCA is University of Creative Arts, so I suspect that's a typo as there's nothing relevant on http://www.ucreative.ac.uk/ireland - has anyone found this paper?

Just from the title, I have my doubts about using solely computer simulations for this because a simulation is only as good as the factors it includes and reality has a bad habit of surprising us with effects we hadn't foreseen. Secondly, it sounds like it's only considering head injuries and again only cases where a collision has already happened, not population-level effects.

However, taking a step back, what does ETSC - the body whose mere citation apparently lends credibility to that research - say are the first things to do to improve cycling safety? 30kmh urban speed limits, best practice guidelines for street design, Intelligent Speed Assist in motor vehicles, various enforcement measures, lower speed limits at junctions, priority maintenance for footways and cycleways (the opposite of most current English policy) ... cyclist crash helmets are only the very last section of http://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/etsc_pin_flash_29_walking_cycling_safer.pdf - let's do the more effective measures first and if it's still not good enough, then consider crash helmets.

 

[classic33]

Another Thudguard moment?

The head of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine (the Professional organisation of Casuaty Dosctors)


If we accept the advice of a single Doctor as evidence for wearing a helmet, then surely the Thudguard becomes even more important when their professional organisation endorses it?

Two seperate pieces.
The first a piece that gives a fairly unbiased view of helmet usage. Not coming down on either side, as someone else pointed out. The second found on a a quick search for reasons to replace the helmet.

 

[classic33]

OK, the newspaper article is almost a full house of crash helmet mispromotion bingo right there, including the proponent being a cyclist himself, saying it's a belief and so on and so on... but let's drill down into the key bit quoted:

The piece was quoted because it says & dealt with secondary impact.
Helmets do not protect the lower half of the body and will not prevent injury to those areas in a collision.

You quote out of context from another thread.

 

[mjr]

You quote out of context from another thread.

No, I quoted from your out-of-context paste into this thread.

Awfully sorry to raise points you won't answer(!)

 

[classic33]

No, I quoted from your out-of-context paste into this thread.

Awfully sorry to raise points you won't answer(!)

Check where it is posted then.

 

[mjr]

Check where it is posted then.

Yep, it's on page 4 of this thread. What's your point? Are you SURE you don't have lasting damage from crash helmet (ab)use?

 

[classic33]

Yep, it's on page 4 of this thread. What's your point? Are you SURE you don't have lasting damage from crash helmet (ab)use?

I've lasting and permanent damage due to epilepsy. I cracked the skull again on the 19th of last month. Before that in Msrch this year.

If that's a joke to you then I pity you and hope you never have to go through any part of it.

 

[mjr]

I've lasting and permanent damage due to epilepsy. I cracked the skull again on the 19th of last month. Before that in Msrch this year.

If that's a joke to you then I pity you and hope you never have to go through any part of it.

That's understandable. No joke. Now please would you consider replying to the points in post #69 instead of suggesting that I'm the one who's confused about where you posted it?