Helmetless and a parent?

[Bromptonaut]

I pretty well never wear one though I made an exception for the initial urban bit of the L2B. Neither does Mrs B

Kids wore them most of the time out en-famille when they were small and I think we insisted. Probably saved son some nasty grazing aged 7 or so when bike ran away with him on an off road track.

After around 10, when they were old enough to understand reasoning, they made their own choices. Neither wore them regularly round the village and the lad got some stick, including from other's Mums, for not wearing one riding to school. At 17 he now wears one on basis that he understands he's at the testosterone risk taker stage in life and will do insane speeds down hills etc.

 

[Red Light]

I'm not talking here about rabid, foam-flecked crazies (the sort we see in the more extreme helmet-cam footage) - just people who rarely miss an opportunity to dismiss helmets. They do exist on this forum. It's not a crime. Their views are as valid as anyone's, but they are here. And I'm not confusing anti-helmet with anti-compulsion.

In an earlier thread on the benefits of helmets, an anti-helmet type posted that helmets 'increase the weight of the head by 10%' as one of many reasons for not wearing a helmet. The maths is incorrect, but the poster may have felt the need to have the maximum number of reasons why helmets are a bad thing. I call that attitude many things; one of them is 'anti-helmet'.

That was me. I am not anti-helmet. I am anti-helmet propagandists and misinformation.

There are a number of misrepresentations in your post here. First my post was in response to two other posts by others, the first by Baggy

Is there any chance that without the helmet, she wouldn't have knocked her head on the floor (added weight, width etc)?

replied to by Screenman

Think about it, the helmet weighs very little in comparison to the head.

So not an anti-helmet rant but a point of information.

Second I said "A typical cycle helmet adds about 10% to the weight of the head". The fact that the particular helmet didn't does not make the maths wrong.

But it seems from your post here and elsewhere on helmets that, although you try to disguise it, you clearly have a pro-helmet agenda.

The thread for those bored enough to want to read it was, like this one on helmets, started by Bicycle and titled "Does this make helmets worth considering?", "this" being a "helmet saved my wife's life" anecdote.

 

[Red Light]

At 17 he now wears one on basis that he understands he's at the testosterone risk taker stage in life and will do insane speeds down hills etc.

Risk compensation in practice and demonstrating the serious problem of risk compensation in cycle helmets. It was never designed to protect at "insane speeds" and yet the misperception that it will is encouraging risk taking behaviour that it will not mitigate.

 

[Bicycle]

Second I said "A typical cycle helmet adds about 10% to the weight of the head". The fact that the particular helmet didn't does not make the maths wrong.


But it seems from your post here and elsewhere on helmets that, although you try to disguise it, you clearly have a pro-helmet agenda.

The thread for those bored enough to want to read it was, like this one on helmets, started by Bicycle and titled "Does this make helmets worth considering?", "this" being a "helmet saved my wife's life" anecdote.

A typical adult human head weighs 4.5 to 5 kg without hair. I have not heard of a mass-market or 'typical' cycle helmet weighing 450 to 500 grammes. I queried your maths at the time, but you went silent.


The accident in the thread wasn't a 'life saved' situation; I neither pretended nor implied that it was. It was a big clump on the bonce. She is still dealing with a stiff elbow; it was a biggie. That thread was a genuine question. The conclusion I came to was "No, it doesn't make it worthwhile wearing a helmet". I continue to ride helmetless most of the time. I didn't own a helmet until the 90s - it's the same one I have now. Largely unworn.

I'm just off for a fixie-blat in the freezingness of the Three Counties wearing a cap comforter - no helmet. Two of my three children go helmetless. I am curious about helmets, but have no agenda. I'm very surprised that you see a clear pro-helmet agenda in someone who shows some curiosity. I do not for a moment, however, suggest that you are a rabid, foam-flecked crazy. Your answer to my post if proof of that if any were needed.

I shall be careful in future whose maths I correct.

 

[Red Light]

Please fix your quoting in your post above so you are not making me appear to say things I didn't.

Edit: Now fixed.

 

[StuartG]

I am a non-helmeted cyclist. Both my kids when young didn't get a vote. They were helmeted. My arguement to them when they raised the difference was:

We cannot firmly say whether helmets are a help or not. What we can say is that kids are more likley to have 'over the handlebar' falls which have a greater chance of a head injury and kids skulls are less equipped to take the knock. So if helmets are going to help anyone it is inexperienced or bravura kids.

When you are as experienced and as thick in the head as me - you get to make the choice. They both dispensed with helmets when they felt confident.

If they had made a fuss earlier I would have given way. Best to be enthusiastic about cycling without then not cycling at all. Hence I would never dare criticise a parent who did not insist. I would criticise anybody other than the parent who did insist on helmet wearing (headteachers etc) unless it was deliberately hazardous cycling (Mountain Biking, Racing ...)

 

[Bicycle]

Please fix your quoting in your post above so you are not making me appear to say things I didn't.

Red Light, your piece I quoted is on the same page as my reply. It's the work of moments to scroll up and check. I added nothing to your post. I quoted only the latter part as those were the points I was addressing. I think most contributors on this forum use this method when quoting longer posts. I changed not one of your words and didn't alter the spacing in the paragraphs I lifted...

You do not defend your (repeated) 10% argument. The maths is wrong, but you used it to support an argument - adding later that you are anti-propaganda and misinformation. Much easier than accepting the error is to tell me to change the way I use the 'quote' function.

You don't explain why you see a clear pro-helmet agenda in someone who repeatedly admits to rarely wearing a helmet. This is unusual. You just ask me to 'fix my quoting'.

All I am asking in this thread is how the children of other non-helmet-wearing parents ride. I think everyone else understood that.

 

[Norm]

Red Light, your piece I quoted is on the same page as my reply. It's the work of moments to scroll up and check. I added nothing to your post. I quoted only the latter part as those were the points I was addressing. I think most contributors on this forum use this method when quoting longer posts. I changed not one of your words and didn't alter the spacing in the paragraphs I lifted...

I thought that you'd gone back and changed it, as it is exactly what RL posted.

Can I ask you both to quit with the sniping, though, and RedLight, please do not drag stuff between threads.

Anyway, lids.

You'll see elsewhere that I'm currently engaging with my kids' school as their boat club has put a "cycle helmet or no rowing" policy in place. I do think that there are more benefits for kids wearing a helmet as (my perception is that) they may have more single-vehicle accidents where a helmet may have greater chance of proving beneficial.

My understanding from research is that the downside of wearing a helmet seems to be that drivers pass closer. I think that this may be offset because drivers seem to naturally give a wider berth to kids in school uniform.

The Smalls here are now 11 and 14. Whilst I was fairly strict with helmet-use when they were younger, they are now of an age where I have, as with many things, given them the information and allowed them to make their own decisions. The Smalls both wear helmets all of the time and I'm fine with that. I don't wear a helmet and they are (now) also fine with that.

I think that's similar to what StuartG posted, so apologies for the repeat.

 

[Bicycle]

Can I ask you both to quit with the sniping, though, and RedLight, please do not drag stuff between threads.

I didn't think I was sniping until I looked back at it. It does come across that way, so apologies.

As to RL draging, yes he did, but it was a response to something I'd mentioned from another thread. I started that dragfest.

It was inadvertant, but it was me.

 

[Norm]

OK, an interpretation thing then, but cut it out anyway or I shall have to get a very large halibut and use it to slap you about the face. **

** Unless you like that sort of thing, in which case I will use a kipper. No-one could possibly like being slapped about the face with a kipper.

 

[Red Light]

RedLight, please do not drag stuff between threads.

What? Bicycle drags stuff of mine in from another thread and misrepresents it and I am at fault for correcting him?

And he then adds his own text into quoted text of mine which I ask him to remove and I am sniping?

How do you suggest I defend myself from misrepresentation and misquoting?

I stand ready sir. Do your worst!

 

[Red Light]

I thought that you'd gone back and changed it, as it is exactly what RL posted.

He did.

You'll see elsewhere that I'm currently engaging with my kids' school as their boat club has put a "cycle helmet or no rowing" policy in place. I do think that there are more benefits for kids wearing a helmet as (my perception is that) they may have more single-vehicle accidents where a helmet may have greater chance of proving beneficial.

My understanding from research is that the downside of wearing a helmet seems to be that drivers pass closer. I think that this may be offset because drivers seem to naturally give a wider berth to kids in school uniform.

The real downside is that kids stop cycling rather than wear a helmet. The Australian experience is its about a third give up cycling but in teenage girls its up to 90% who stop. TRL research in the UK showed places that had helmet promotion campaigns depressed cycling levels as opposed to increased cycling in places that didn't promote them. The health benefits of cycling massively outweight the health risks of not wearing a helmet even if you assume the most positive beliefs of helmet efficacy. For kids its therefore a massive own goal to make them wear helmets.

There is a clear and strong negative correlation between active transport (walking and cycling) and obesity. Obesity is overtaking smoking as the leading cause of premature death and in the 20 years since the mandatory helmet laws were introduced in Australia, it has become the most obese nation in the world. It has been estimated that there will be over 6,000 premature deaths a year in Australia as a result of obesity. There were 33 cyclist deaths in Australia in the last reported year and based on TRL data, if helmets are assumed to be effective they might have saved between 3 and 5 of those.

So small picture it may look like a good idea but big picture it looks like a public health disaster.

 

[Norm]

He did.

Well, it's all good then.

I stand ready sir. Do your worst!

Must I? And can I bring a friend.

So small picture it may look like a good idea but big picture it looks like a public health disaster.

Such is sadly the way I see it.

However, I think that this thread is about the small picture and, specifically, the small picture relating to kids.

 

[Red Light]

Such is sadly the way I see it.

However, I think that this thread is about the small picture and, specifically, the small picture relating to kids.

So should we encourage people to discuss the small picture at the risk of them doing real long term harm to their kids or think about the future health and well being of their kids by looking at the big picture?

 

[Bicycle]

I shall contiue not to wear a helmet most of the time when I ride a bicycle. I shall continue not to ask my children to wear one.

I still can't find a typical cycling helmet that adds 10% to the weight of an adult's head.

And I still can't find any suggestion that I have a clear pro-helmet agenda.

I've found much of this thread positive and helpful. My thanks to everyone who replied.