Heat pump experiences

[deuxfois]

As it stands that is merely hearsay, not evidence. We’d need to know far more before giving it any credence.

 

[Illaveago]

As it stands that is merely hearsay, not evidence. We’d need to know far more before giving it any credence.

It was my brother's friends brother .

 

[deuxfois]

Does he sell oil-fired boilers😉

 

[mjr]

I have heard of someone who had their system taken out and replaced by an oil fired heating system as it was just too costly to run.

Then I hope his oil system installer is more competent than his heat pump installer was!

When we switched from oil to air source, once Vlad invaded Ukraine we needed a performance of 250% percent to be cheaper than oil. The more common target figure is a performance of 320% to be cheaper than mains gas, which is effectively subsidized for now. We're beating both comfortably in the first three years. Of course, it's possible to mess up an installation so badly to get worse performance than needed to beat oil and I have heard of them but it would almost always be far cheaper to fix the installation than to switch back.

 

[Illaveago]

Does he sell oil-fired boilers😉

Do you sell heat pumps?

 

[Illaveago]

Then I hope his oil system installer is more competent than his heat pump installer was!

When we switched from oil to air source, once Vlad invaded Ukraine we needed a performance of 250% percent to be cheaper than oil. The more common target figure is a performance of 320% to be cheaper than mains gas, which is effectively subsidized for now. We're beating both comfortably in the first three years. Of course, it's possible to mess up an installation so badly to get worse performance than needed to beat oil and I have heard of them but it would almost always be far cheaper to fix the installation than to switch back.

I just had word with my brother. The chap paid over £15,000 plus grant to have it installed. If he has done the figures and decided that it is too costly to run and had it replaced by oil fired then it is up to him. I am just relaying his experiences.
From what I have read already they are not what I would consider to have installed. There has been mention of additional heating to boost the temperatures in rooms.

 

[mjr]

I just had word with my brother. The chap paid over £15,000 plus grant to have it installed. If he has done the figures and decided that it is too costly to run and had it replaced by oil fired then it is up to him. I am just relaying his experiences.

Yes, I understand you're just relaying his experiences but even with the lowest recent grant of £5000, that's a 20 grand heat pump system, which I think is the most expensive system I've heard anyone actually get installed for an ordinary home (so not something like a big old farmhouse or stately home). Were the radiators replaced with gold-plated ones?

There used to be some suspicion that if an installer didn't want or need the work, they'd put a silly high quote in... either that happened there, or the chap leaves his blinds open during sex because the salesman sure saw him coming!

If the installer didn't want to do the job, I doubt it was his best work, and it might have included certain bits of frippery which bump up the price (and profit) but can actually further reduce performance if installed when not needed. Do you know if they're still trading? And does their HQ have a hitching rail for their cowboy's horses?

From what I have read already they are not what I would consider to have installed. There has been mention of additional heating to boost the temperatures in rooms.

That mention is probably because the old grant scheme pretty much required the main room to have some additional heater in case the electricity goes off during a prolonged spell of well-subzero temperatures (where the reduced maximum output of an air-source heat pump might take a day to warm a home up from stone cold, as opposed to the far easier task of keeping it warm). It seems to be usual government grant rule gold-plating. Our little wood burner sufficed to pass the rule, but it's not been lit since getting the heat pump (unlike with the oil heating, which was extravagant to run all day if I was the only person home), even during a week or more below zero.

I've not checked if the current grant scheme still has that rule, but boost heating is unnecessary if the heating system is designed well. Ours is designed to keep the main room a degree or two warmer than the rest, because we're normally sitting still in there but moving around doing things elsewhere, plus we don't like bedrooms too hot.

Take care with what you read: the right-wing newspapers seem to be resharing a lot of news releases from the gas and oil industry about heat pumps, including false friends like gas companies and gas boiler makers who have heat pump businesses but basically make most of their profit out of mains gas and the heat pumps are a mix of PR and a fallback for homes not on mains gas.

 

[presta]

The key things with a heat pump are to get the right size (as they will struggle if you get too small, but cycle and trash performance if you get too big)

They can't be the right size all the time, the weather changes, there's a compromise between guarding against going cold in the worst weather, and optimising efficiency the rest of the time. I couldn't find any data on how efficiency varies with the load fraction.

 

[Tenkaykev]

They can't be the right size all the time, the weather changes, there's a compromise between guarding against going cold in the worst weather, and optimising efficiency the rest of the time. I couldn't find any data on how efficiency varies with the load fraction.

The Heat Geeks YouTube channel is a good source of information.

 

[Tenkaykev]

Any more recent experiences with heat pumps that anyone can share?

For context I'm having solar panels & battery storage installed next week and wondering whether to move over to a heat pump next year to replace the gas central heating. As someone that doesn't need the house heated to t-shirt wearing temperature all day and has an electric shower so doesn't need masses of hot water would it make sense? Just had a quick look at Octopus (who I'm with anyway) and, given their quote and that I'll need a solar diverter (I think that's what was shown), a guestimated cost of around £1,500 with the grant taken into account is what I'm looking at.

I had similar work done a year ago. The general consensus is not to go with a Solar Diverter as you can export the excess at 15p kWh. Over late spring and summer my monthly bills were negative and I built up credit of several hundred pounds. I will have a full years data by the middle of next month and will then be able to compare to previous years.?

 

[cougie uk]

I heard today that Heat Pumps are outselling gas boilers even in the US of A ! It seems that the UK are lagging behind for some reason ?

 

[Illaveago]

Yes, I understand you're just relaying his experiences but even with the lowest recent grant of £5000, that's a 20 grand heat pump system, which I think is the most expensive system I've heard anyone actually get installed for an ordinary home (so not something like a big old farmhouse or stately home). Were the radiators replaced with gold-plated ones?

There used to be some suspicion that if an installer didn't want or need the work, they'd put a silly high quote in... either that happened there, or the chap leaves his blinds open during sex because the salesman sure saw him coming!

If the installer didn't want to do the job, I doubt it was his best work, and it might have included certain bits of frippery which bump up the price (and profit) but can actually further reduce performance if installed when not needed. Do you know if they're still trading? And does their HQ have a hitching rail for their cowboy's horses?


That mention is probably because the old grant scheme pretty much required the main room to have some additional heater in case the electricity goes off during a prolonged spell of well-subzero temperatures (where the reduced maximum output of an air-source heat pump might take a day to warm a home up from stone cold, as opposed to the far easier task of keeping it warm). It seems to be usual government grant rule gold-plating. Our little wood burner sufficed to pass the rule, but it's not been lit since getting the heat pump (unlike with the oil heating, which was extravagant to run all day if I was the only person home), even during a week or more below zero.

I've not checked if the current grant scheme still has that rule, but boost heating is unnecessary if the heating system is designed well. Ours is designed to keep the main room a degree or two warmer than the rest, because we're normally sitting still in there but moving around doing things elsewhere, plus we don't like bedrooms too hot.

Take care with what you read: the right-wing newspapers seem to be resharing a lot of news releases from the gas and oil industry about heat pumps, including false friends like gas companies and gas boiler makers who have heat pump businesses but basically make most of their profit out of mains gas and the heat pumps are a mix of PR and a fallback for homes not on mains gas.

Apparently the chap works for a heating company

Yes, I understand you're just relaying his experiences but even with the lowest recent grant of £5000, that's a 20 grand heat pump system, which I think is the most expensive system I've heard anyone actually get installed for an ordinary home (so not something like a big old farmhouse or stately home). Were the radiators replaced with gold-plated ones?

There used to be some suspicion that if an installer didn't want or need the work, they'd put a silly high quote in... either that happened there, or the chap leaves his blinds open during sex because the salesman sure saw him coming!

If the installer didn't want to do the job, I doubt it was his best work, and it might have included certain bits of frippery which bump up the price (and profit) but can actually further reduce performance if installed when not needed. Do you know if they're still trading? And does their HQ have a hitching rail for their cowboy's horses?


That mention is probably because the old grant scheme pretty much required the main room to have some additional heater in case the electricity goes off during a prolonged spell of well-subzero temperatures (where the reduced maximum output of an air-source heat pump might take a day to warm a home up from stone cold, as opposed to the far easier task of keeping it warm). It seems to be usual government grant rule gold-plating. Our little wood burner sufficed to pass the rule, but it's not been lit since getting the heat pump (unlike with the oil heating, which was extravagant to run all day if I was the only person home), even during a week or more below zero.

I've not checked if the current grant scheme still has that rule, but boost heating is unnecessary if the heating system is designed well. Ours is designed to keep the main room a degree or two warmer than the rest, because we're normally sitting still in there but moving around doing things elsewhere, plus we don't like bedrooms too hot.

Take care with what you read: the right-wing newspapers seem to be resharing a lot of news releases from the gas and oil industry about heat pumps, including false friends like gas companies and gas boiler makers who have heat pump businesses but basically make most of their profit out of mains gas and the heat pumps are a mix of PR and a fallback for homes not on mains gas.

Apparently the person I mentioned works for a heating company. He isn't just an engineer but has access to all of the relevant information. In his case he found out that his system was too costly to run and has had it replaced. The figure I quoted was wrong but it was near £15,000.

 

[mjr]

Apparently the person I mentioned works for a heating company. He isn't just an engineer but has access to all of the relevant information. In his case he found out that his system was too costly to run and has had it replaced.

Well, if he can fark up his own heat pump installation that badly, i wouldn't ask them to install any heating system!

Basically, air source heat pumps usually cost about the same as mains gas over a year because gas is effectively subsidised and electricity is loaded with extra environmental levies which really should be on gas in any fair system, but oil brought by lorry is more expensive than mains gas, so a heat pump really should be beating an oil system easily.

Ground source heat pumps are cheaper to run but much more expensive to install so you need to need a big pump to be worth it. Air to air heat pumps are slightly more efficient but don't qualify for grants currently.

 

[mjr]

They can't be the right size all the time, the weather changes, there's a compromise between guarding against going cold in the worst weather, and optimising efficiency the rest of the time. I couldn't find any data on how efficiency varies with the load fraction.

All that. They can't be the right size all the time, but they have a range of efficient output so you should aim for the output powers you need to be in that range most of the time. Efficiency doesn't vary much with load factor. It varies with the input and output temperatures, which means for the best efficiency you want the lowest output temperature needed to heat the building, because generally the input temperature is beyond your control, although you can site your heat pump external unit in a relatively warm outside location.