Heart Problems

[Crankarm]

Sorry to read your ticker has been flickering. The odd twinges I have had and I think everyone gets them from time to time become less frequent with moderate exercise. For a 60 year old what you are trying to still achieve is very laudible but be relalistic don't go so hard it kills you. Everything in moderation. If you were Cav's age then your body should be in peak condition but at 60 you're in the autumn of your life. Shake your tree too hard too quickly and all your leaves will come off.

Cholesterol is bad for you as it silts up in large arteries, bits break off which then go into smaller vessels blocking blood flow to the brain or heart muscle. DANGER STROKE OR HEART ATTACK!!! I believe broccoli is full of statins. I try to eat a lot of this, even raw. Also Brussles sprouts I believe are an excellent source. Beetroot is pretty good as well. Certainly brings colour to one's cheeks if nothing else . Avoid hydrogenated fats such as red meat, bisquits, cakes, crisps and those Ginsters pies .

Also drink lots of water as another common cause of heart attacks is thickening of the blood due to not drinking enough water. Thick blood means one's ticker has to do more work pumping it around. Also not drinking enough water buggers up your kidneys. Particularly important for cyclists/athletes as well oiled machines who can sweat buckets.

Better to live life at 80% than not at all me thinks. But I'm sure some one will now be along to say that living life at 100% for 5 minutes is better than living at 75-80% for 100 years . Take it easy. Get some new slippers and put your feet up. Have another cigar and brandy....... .

 

[Bill Gates]

With apologies to mark Johnson I have copied his post from another cycling forum on the subject of statins as he explains what is my position for more eloquently than I can.


"Seriously........regards statin drugs, there is a massive con quite frankly going on & if you make these drugs you really are on a winner, if your chance of winning the lottery was as good, I recommend going out & buying a ticket now!!!!

LDP is not cholesterol, it's Low Density Lypo-Protein

HDP is not cholesterol, it's High Density Lypo-Protein

Ask any GP this, if cholesterol is so bad why does your body make it?

Why is mothers breast milk high in cholesterol? (and fat)

Every cell in your body is made up of around 40-50% cholesterol (cell wall)

Also guess who sets the "safe" upper & lower limits of cholesterol? The drug manufactures!!!!!, how good is that if you make drugs (statins) self regulation!!! (lottery win every ticket)

You'll also notice that the upper & lower limits have got closer together over the years so just about anyone who's tested would need statins, kind of like a smart bomb, you know the kind that goes straight through the window destroys everything & leaves the building standing?

You have to address the under lying problem which is cholesterol metabolization.

Without going into lots of detail:

If your body is sympathetic dominant (more catabolic than anabolic) you will have elevated cholesterol as your body is spending more time breaking cells down, remember cholesterol is the primary building block for your cell/s wall/s, we "spend" around 12 million red blood cells a second! Let alone if you add any exercise on top of that, don't take my word for it, test your cholesterol go for a brisk walk or short ride & re-test & it will have gone up, guaranteed.

Under lying factors are:

Poor diet (lack of quality protein & fat)
Excessive/prolonged periods of stress, nutrition, circadian, physical, emotional, environmental or phycological it all adds up & your body knows no difference between any of the above, it all elevates hormones that cause cell break down & fat storage.

Also Adrenal function/Thyroid function (both have to be address synergistically as they work as a pair)

I recommend watching this video clip on my website:
http://www.markjohnson-coaching.350.com/MWV_page_10.htm

There's also a good book on amazon called "the great cholesterol con" by Dr Malcolm Kendrick
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Chole...6101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1250539629&sr=8-2

You are also correct EVERY medical has side effects & every medical has to be detoxified by your liver, it's also worth noting that studies show only around 3-5% of people prescribed statins actually have a therapeutic effect, so for the other 90 odd % all the drug is doing is masking a under lying problem/s as some of the above examples.

Hope this has provided you with some good useful information & given you some thing to think about"

 

[Bill Gates]

Re "Overdoing it".

I've spent hours on the internet searching for information on athletes, cardiac disease and training. All medical opininion urges caution yet I cannot find one example of one person who has died from over exercising following a heart attack.

I understand the pressures of family and doctors as i have experienced them first hand. At the end of the day the heart is a muscle and needs to be exercised to keep in good condition. The arteries are the problem and that's where a good healthy diet can help. Also I remain much calmer these days as stress causes inflammation in the artery walls which then attract plaque and fir up.

We make our lifestyle choices according to our beliefs and I've chosen mine and others will choose theirs. I'm simply looking for some advice on training but please don't criticise my lifestyle choice and I won't criticise anyone else's.

 

[Bill Gates]

Sorry to read your ticker has been flickering. The odd twinges I have had and I think everyone gets them from time to time become less frequent with moderate exercise. For a 60 year old what you are trying to still achieve is very laudible but be relalistic don't go so hard it kills you. Everything in moderation. If you were Cav's age then your body should be in peak condition but at 60 you're in the autumn of your life. Shake your tree too hard too quickly and all your leaves will come off.

Cholesterol is bad for you as it silts up in large arteries, bits break off which then go into smaller vessels blocking blood flow to the brain or heart muscle. DANGER STROKE OR HEART ATTACK!!! I believe broccoli is full of statins. I try to eat a lot of this, even raw. Also Brussles sprouts I believe are an excellent source. Beetroot is pretty good as well. Certainly brings colour to one's cheeks if nothing else . Avoid hydrogenated fats such as red meat, bisquits, cakes, crisps and those Ginsters pies .

Also drink lots of water as another common cause of heart attacks is thickening of the blood due to not drinking enough water. Thick blood means one's ticker has to do more work pumping it around. Also not drinking enough water buggers up your kidneys. Particularly important for cyclists/athletes as well oiled machines who can sweat buckets.

Better to live life at 80% than not at all me thinks. But I'm sure some one will now be along to say that living life at 100% for 5 minutes is better than living at 75-80% for 100 years . Take it easy. Get some new slippers and put your feet up. Have another cigar and brandy....... .

Are you having a laugh?

 

[Davidc]

Perhaps we should start a CC Diseased Hearts section on cyclogs, and try to outcompete the Scots separatists!

FF - When you've finished with your NHS knocking yanks send 'em over here....

 

[jonny jeez]

Err...Bill, are you "asking" us or trying to "convince" us (or you) that its ok to ride after two heart attacks and what seems to be described as high Cholesterol.

I dont need to be convinced that you will be fine...so...do you.

Do you just want us all to say, "YEAH you go man, F*ck all those GP's who are obviously on some clandestine mission of mercenary fulfuillment, none of them want to see you have a happy and healthy life...no they just want to join up to some inner sanctum conspiracy and make zillions along the way"

Sure, drug companys make a profit, and sure they "push" their products just like any commercial entity and as a result GP's are often inundated with choice...is this any reason to ignore someone who has trained for decades to be in a position to try and help you.

From the tone of your posts you are clearly a very driven and determined man, so, good luck with your life, I wish you all the best

I have no advice for you ......and you dont want it anyway.

Take care

Jonny

 

[Bill Gates]

Err...Bill, are you "asking" us or trying to "convince" us (or you) that its ok to ride after two heart attacks and what seems to be described as high Cholesterol.

I dont need to be convinced that you will be fine...so...do you.

Do you just want us all to say, "YEAH you go man, F*ck all those GP's who are obviously on some clandestine mission of mercenary fulfuillment, none of them want to see you have a happy and healthy life...no they just want to join up to some inner sanctum conspiracy and make zillions along the way"

Sure, drug companys make a profit, and sure they "push" their products just like any commercial entity and as a result GP's are often inundated with choice...is this any reason to ignore someone who has trained for decades to be in a position to try and help you.

From the tone of your posts you are clearly a very driven and determined man, so, good luck with your life, I wish you all the best

I have no advice for you ......and you dont want it anyway.

Take care

Jonny

I don't need convincing. Whatever gave you that idea?

I'm asking for training tips re recovery FFS. The stuff about cholesterol and to take it easy in your condition is in answer to those who brought it up in the first place.

I didn't bring it up and I'm not looking for advice about my lifestyle thank you. I know repeat KNOW what statins did to me as I had the most horrendous siude effects that I'm convinced would have killed me if I carried on. Now I'm feeling just great. Those of you on statins, be honest, how do you feel?

In my GP's surgery I overheard two guys talking about how many pills they were taking, willy waving if you like. Believe me they looked like sh*t.

No I don't need convincing!

Is here anyone out there who can give me an answer re training and recovery at 60, without lecturing me on some ridiculous notion that I'm on a crusade to get people off statins? Thank you

 

[youngoldbloke]

I am 61 going on 62. I had balloon angioplasty, 2 arteries, in 1992, following angina - but slowly reverted to old eating/ drinking habits - leading to a recurrence of the problem and 3 arteries stented in 2005. I think I must have taken every cholestrol lowering medicaton known, statins lowered my cholesterol, but I developed chronic muscle pain, (which continues to some extent). I stopped statins some years ago and now take Ezetimibe, but have some doubt as to its effectiveness. The only other prescription medication I take is 150mg aspirin daily. I also take Omega 3, vitamin D and various other supplements. I always cycled, after racing in my youth, but became something of a born again roadie following the recent procedures. I obeyed instructions this time, went to cardio rehab., gym followup, exercise on prescription..... stopped drinking alcohol, took up walking, then cycling - almost obsessively. Gym, circuit training once a week, and bike otherwise. Resting heart rate about 47, max around 180. My weight is down from around 12.5 stone to just 10. I will never be as fast as I remember being (!), the best I can manage now is to average around 17mph for 22miles. I am not as good a hill climber as I once was, and I don't think I will race again. It has taken all this time to regain fitness, and it takes work to keep it, but I regret I didn't start sooner. Listen to your body - go for it - good luck!

 

[Jonathan M]

Seeing the thread on cycling and MS has prompted me to seek out the experiences of other riders who ride and have had a heart attack or suffer from angina, and how this is affecting their riding.

I've had 2 heart attacks and, some might think foolishly, still have aspirations to race competitively. I've not raced so far this year, as I've had a bad year's training mainly due to a dodgy knee. I recently had an arthroscopy and can now manage to do some high quality training rides.

The problem I find is recovery. My MHR is around 176 and 'm 60. I can manage to do some decent training @ 90-95% MHR for 2 x 20 minutes to improve my LT but it knocks me out for the following 2 days. Riding at steady or tempo pace doesn't have the same effect.

Bill, have you tried any of the cardiac charities?

Or indeed have you spoken to a cardiac specialist consultant? Edit, re-read you post on page 1, ask your current consultant if any of his colleagues have such experience.

Fit people can & do experience heart attacks, therefore consultants will have people on their workload who exercised pre MI, and who return to exercise post MI. If your consultants opinion is that exercise cannot happen, then seek a second opinion, especially if your consultant has cardiology tacked onto a general medicine role. Maybe even ask to be seen at a specialist centre??

To dismiss all "general" medics as having insufficient knowledge isn't appropriate, as they have condition specific knowledge, I'm not sure how many sports physiologists will have dealt with assisting someone with a recent cardiac history.

As someone who is also trying to return to cycling after a recently diagnosed condition (brain tumour & surgery, associated seizures) then you have my best wishes. Not every condition can & should be treated as a "life senstence", hey, if we all thought that someone should have pulled the plug on LA years ago! - I forgot, Cofidis did!!!

 

[HeartAttack]

Dec 07 suffered a heart attack I was 43, I was lucky I didn't need a bypass but did have to have 2 stents fitted, I was advised at the time to take up some light exercise as I didn't do anything more than walk to the car, I ate the wrong foods and smoked 40 a day, typically my attack was stress related due to me being self employed and running 3 businesses.

Anyway taking the doc's advice I thought cycling would be ideal as he did too, however I soon found that the limits I'd been advised to stick to were so low I just couldn't enjoy myself, OK I'm very competitive, so I decided to follow the advice as and where it suited me, wrong I know but its my life and when I die I wanted to go out knowing I had no regrets, typically the docs didn't agree but the more they said no the more I did, yes this could have killed me but I did also listen to my body.

Anyway 2 1/2 months following my attack I did a 50mile reliability ride, god it was hard work, I spent almost all the time on my own as I couldn't ride with the old guys out there, but I finished it in 3 hours dead, and dead I was almost but I did it, against the advice. A weeks rest and I was full of joy for my new found pastime. Following this I have gone from strength to strength, but I have upset and annoyed my doctors and consultants big time.

At my 6 month check I was there with a guy who had an attack at the same time, we had the same treatments and advice, he followed everything they said to the letter, I did what I wanted, we are both almost the same age but after 6 months he looked 90 and I didn't, he couldn't run up 6 flights of stairs, I can.

So now nearly 2 years on, I still eat what I like, I still smoke and I still ride the bike and now do some running and gym work. I have done road races, time trials (just done a 23:02 for a 10) and can almost always be found near the front of my club's fast group on rides. Ok in the last 12 months I've had to have 2 more stents fitted but for me doing what I wanted has worked, BUT I would not advocate anyone following what I have done, it could and may well in the long term kill me but for those who know me, know I live life to the full and accept that I may not be doing the best for myself but its my life and I live for me.

As mentioned by others listen to your body but don't totally ignore what doctors say, they know better than us what can and may happen.

Now get out there and see what you can do, stop when it hurts, rest and then try again.

 

[Jonathan M]

One big issue to consider, and it is more family practical oreintated than cardiac rehab related.

If your consultant has clearly documented that he does not support exercise past a certain level, then any life cover that you have may not pay out in the event of a misfortune occuring, which could mean hardships for remaining family. Bill & HeartAttack, I'm not directing this towards you guys, but it is soemthing to consider before making decisions for others whose health may fail them in the future.

Sadly sometimes medics will refuse to support some activities purely from the litigation point of view, other times they do have clear cut clinical reasons to do so; I was told to not fly for at least 6 weeks post brain surgery to remove my tumour, simply because even though steps are taken to try and ensure no air is closed under the membranes of thebrain,some always is, and would cause problems in the altered pressure environemnt of an aircraft.

 

[Bill Gates]

Dec 07 suffered a heart attack I was 43, I was lucky I didn't need a bypass but did have to have 2 stents fitted, I was advised at the time to take up some light exercise as I didn't do anything more than walk to the car, I ate the wrong foods and smoked 40 a day, typically my attack was stress related due to me being self employed and running 3 businesses.

Anyway taking the doc's advice I thought cycling would be ideal as he did too, however I soon found that the limits I'd been advised to stick to were so low I just couldn't enjoy myself, OK I'm very competitive, so I decided to follow the advice as and where it suited me, wrong I know but its my life and when I die I wanted to go out knowing I had no regrets, typically the docs didn't agree but the more they said no the more I did, yes this could have killed me but I did also listen to my body.

Anyway 2 1/2 months following my attack I did a 50mile reliability ride, god it was hard work, I spent almost all the time on my own as I couldn't ride with the old guys out there, but I finished it in 3 hours dead, and dead I was almost but I did it, against the advice. A weeks rest and I was full of joy for my new found pastime. Following this I have gone from strength to strength, but I have upset and annoyed my doctors and consultants big time.

At my 6 month check I was there with a guy who had an attack at the same time, we had the same treatments and advice, he followed everything they said to the letter, I did what I wanted, we are both almost the same age but after 6 months he looked 90 and I didn't, he couldn't run up 6 flights of stairs, I can.

So now nearly 2 years on, I still eat what I like, I still smoke and I still ride the bike and now do some running and gym work. I have done road races, time trials (just done a 23:02 for a 10) and can almost always be found near the front of my club's fast group on rides. Ok in the last 12 months I've had to have 2 more stents fitted but for me doing what I wanted has worked, BUT I would not advocate anyone following what I have done, it could and may well in the long term kill me but for those who know me, know I live life to the full and accept that I may not be doing the best for myself but its my life and I live for me.

As mentioned by others listen to your body but don't totally ignore what doctors say, they know better than us what can and may happen.

Now get out there and see what you can do, stop when it hurts, rest and then try again.

Thanks for your reply, and congratulations on your 10 mile TT time. Well done!

Interested as to what prompted the 2 stents. Were you getting angina? Also do you do interval training and if so what effect does that have on your recovery?

I seem to have hit on a winning formula by accident re my sore knee. I now train every other day and find my speed and fitness coming along nicely. In resting my knee I seem to be gaining strength from the extra recovery from training.

 

[youngoldbloke]

"Interested as to what prompted the 2 stents." - I still smoke - might have something to do with it. The absolutely first and essential thing to do if you have heart disease is to stop smoking.

 

[HeartAttack]

One of the stents were fitted because sods law hit me and somehow one moved, only 3 mm I was told but it was enough to have a weak wall just behind it so they backed another upto the first, the other was partly through angina and partly because I didn't take my own advice and listen to my body, I was in the front pack at the Lotus eve race series doing my turn at the front trying to pull back a breakaway and I wanted to get them back no matter what, well till my body said enough was enough, I learnt a very hard lesson that day and no matter what now I do take note if I get a pain.

Training etc, yes I do some intervals, normally this year they have been 60sec max effort 60 secs recovery x 10 once a week, I also take 99% of the time Monday's and Friday's as a non bike/rest day. I always remember being told that you don't get stronger/faster through training but through recovery so yes having time off will allow your body to recover.

 

[HeartAttack]

"Interested as to what prompted the 2 stents." - I still smoke - might have something to do with it. The absolutely first and essential thing to do if you have heart disease is to stop smoking.

Yep maybe but I'll quit when I want to not when I'm told to, and I'm also yet to see any proof that my smoking was a contributory factor in my attack or subsequent need for medical attention. I do agree smoking is bad for my health but its my body and my health so please don't try to tell me what I am doing right or wrong.

You could also talk to my grandad, he was 100 last Dec had a quad bypass at 93yo and still smokes 60 a day as he has since he was 14 and you know what he's still here :?: