hangers-on (grrrrrrrrr)

[Red Light]

I merely claimed that there was an advantage for the rider being drafted - which is a true fact.

You said the advantage was insignificant and claimed a figure of 99.9% - Which is clearly bogus.

Convention dictates that it's your job to provide the evidence for your assersion - or withdraw it.

I don't know the evidence on which is based but AIUI the conventional cycling wisdom is the front rider gets a 5% advantage, ther rear a 30% advantage.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

As this was a charity ride would you expect the riders to know the etiquette? The MTB Marathons I do publish a list of "10 commandments" which include rules of etiquette. As it is not a race does it really matter anyway?

 

[DrSquirrel]

You will die for that P'tak!

I thought the arse waxing would explain that comment... weird star trek fanboi

 

[amaferanga]

I merely claimed that there was an advantage for the rider being drafted - which is a true fact.

You said the advantage was insignificant and claimed a figure of 99.9% - Which is clearly bogus.

Convention dictates that it's your job to provide the evidence for your assersion - or withdraw it.

What convention is that - silly Cyclechat forum convention?

So I made up the 99.9% bit, but stand by my claim that the benefit to the rider in front is insignificant (at the sort of speeds we're talking about at least).

So you were the one that claimed there was an advantage so please tell me what that advantage is in real terms? Watts saved by the rider in front when travelling at 20mph will do.

 

[oldroadman]

It sounds like they were selfish, but maybe they werent as strong as you guys?

It would have been nice if they'd taken their turn to lead, but you would have shared the work with your mate anyway so you lost nothing by giving them a tow.

All they achieved was to make you angry. Next time take the moral high ground, you're doing the work and getting the benefit of the extra effort, they are free loading off you.

Of course, if it was a race then you have a right to be angry.

Why, it's a legitimate tactic, and the counter is a working over to get them dropped. If you can't then they outsprint you. Perfectly normal sprinter's move. It's called racing, which is not about the strongest always winning, but the smartest having a chance if they can handle the attacks!

 

[amaferanga]

I merely claimed that there was an advantage for the rider being drafted - which is a true fact.

You said the advantage was insignificant and claimed a figure of 99.9% - Which is clearly bogus.

Convention dictates that it's your job to provide the evidence for your assersion - or withdraw it.

here you go


Apparent 9W saving for a rider pushing a modest 300W plus at around 45-50km/h. Translate that to twiddle dee and twiddle dum on a charity ride pushing something like 200W at 15mph and it becomes pretty insignificant - a couple of Watts. Compare that with the benefit to the drafting rider of around 40W.

 

[mickle]

What convention is that - silly Cyclechat forum convention?

So I made up the 99.9% bit, but stand by my claim that the benefit to the rider in front is insignificant (at the sort of speeds we're talking about at least).

So you were the one that claimed there was an advantage so please tell me what that advantage is in real terms? Watts saved by the rider in front when travelling at 20mph will do.

I have no idea what the advantage is - I only know is that there is one - I made no claims as to the significance or otherwise of the advantage since my statement didn't require a figure - I simply pointed out that there is a benefit to the lead rider.

It was you that made up a bogus number. Thanks for acknowledging it.

 

[mickle]

here you go


Apparent 9W saving for a rider pushing a modest 300W plus at around 45-50km/h. Translate that to twiddle dee and twiddle dum on a charity ride pushing something like 200W at 15mph and it becomes pretty insignificant - a couple of Watts. Compare that with the benefit to the drafting rider of around 40W.

Great.

 

[mickle]

So in the context of the discussion - about 1% ? Interesting, thanks for that.

 

[screenman]

A modest 300w I think not.

 

[2Loose]

As an aside as I don't have much experience of this, but is drafting not a bit dangerous? I'm not sure I'd be happy with someone inches behind me as if I have to brake suddenly he's going to smack right into the back of me
... or if I go over ...

You don't need to be inches away, even I noticed the effect on our last ride Jezston and I was a couple of feet back and slightly offset, but there was definitely as sweet spot.

 

[John the Monkey]

With all this sacrificial politeness about I'm now curious as to how many prefer to just gruel it alone.

/raises hand

Random folk latching on...I don't know their skill level, and they don't know mine. I suspect, if they need a tow from a fat bloke on a tourer, it's not that high...

 

[mickle]

I find it's very fifficult to draft on this:

I just can't seem to get close enough...

 

[fossyant]

Now let me tell you a story, all true. Sit back, grab a cuppa....

Back in the late 80's and through the 90's there was a guy all the local club riders in South Manchester knew about. (The fella was from Hyde/Tameside) He would ride around at about 10-12 mph, in jeans and a Raleigh road top. He wasn't all quite there, and I'll explain.

We all knew, that if you passed him, he'd suddenly wheelsuck you. He'd never talk, would never pass, or respond to any 'hellos', and no matter how fast you rode he'd sit there - almost impossible to shake off - blooming pain in the ar$e when you are out on a training run.

If you hit 20, he'd be there, 25 still there, 10 still there. Never got off your wheel. Most folk would try and avoid him.

The guy eventually progressed to cycling tights. He was usually out most days, and had been spotted as far as Ashbourne - about 40 plus miles from where he lived, so he was fairly serious, and he was out all weathers.

He never spoke to anyone, just wheel sucked.

Anyway, coming back from a TT, me driving, and my clubmate in the passenger seat, bikes on roof. We pass the guy, and he starts to try an tag on the back (of the car). My mate thought he'd be clever, and stuck his head out of the window, and told the bloke to 'f' off. I was so glad we were about to hit a 40 mph section, and even more so when the next lights were green.

The fella is a bit of a legend (or leg end) in this area. Not seen him for some time though.

 

[the_bing]

flinkin blip didn't think there'd be this many replies!

hmmm, i guess some of you guys are right, i shouldn't take it so seriously (esp on a charity ride) and just ask 'em if they wanna take the lead for a bit. i just view it as a bit of a liberty really, especially over 6 or 7 miles. i'd never do it to another rider, either on a charity ride or any other time; if i find myself tailing someone, i back off out of politeness or overtake.

don't get me wrong, i've had people tailing me before and thats fine for a short time but not over that much of a distance and thats where my annoyance came from.

still thanks for the replies, guys. gave me summat to think about anyway.