Gravel Bike Frame or F+F only purchase….

[sevenfourate]

It's certainly sound reasoning, with gravel bikes you have a spectrum of bikes as you say, from drop bar MTB, through to slightly gnarly road bike. You certainly seem to have a good idea of the type of bike you are looking for.

Personally I'm always biased towards SRAM, I just find it much better than Shimano. My biggest puzzlement though with the Bergamont though is what groupset does it actually come with. The picture clearly shows a 1x set up bike. The blurb immediately below that mentions a 2x10 drivetrain, then the specs list an 11 speed cassette? I'm pretty certain though, it's the old Shimano GRX 1x 11 speed groupset, which is a generally a good groupset.

Personally I would find a 40t chainring married to a 11-42 cassette, far too much hard work. I have a 34 tooth chainring married to a 10-42 cassette which I find OK for most stuff, but then I do ride off-road a lot. For what you are planning it may well be fine, but be aware it hasn't got a terribly low climbing gear.

Brilliant. Thanks for pondering over and confirming my hopefully valid (To me) my thoughts. I did see the blurb and picture didn’t agree reference the front chainring ! I think I’ll give them a ring in the am - and double check its single front: then order.

I THINK that low gear will be fine. Not because I’m a King of the Mountains standard rider. More like I live in the flatlands of Suffolk; and bumping off a curb is about as hilly as it gets around here…..😁

 

[vickster]

Sonder quite often have ex display/demo bikes. Worth a look on their website
Eg https://alpkit.com/products/demo-camino-al-large-black-rival1-hyd?variant=40961422393449
(You might need to log in)
Boring Black though

 

[sevenfourate]

Sonder quite often have ex display/demo bikes. Worth a look on their website
Eg https://alpkit.com/products/demo-camino-al-large-black-rival1-hyd?variant=40961422393449
(You might need to log in)
Boring Black though

Thanks 🙏 Good spec for the cost that. (And I’m with you on wanting an actual colour though 😉) They’ve 8 options of new Camino under £1500. The cost isn’t the issue - as excellent as the bike clearly is……I don’t think it quite fits my needs in reality.

 

[chriswoody]

Ultimately it seems to be the frame that you are looking at to differentiate the bikes. If you go to the geometry geeks website you can make a direct comparison between the frames and see where the differences are. If I do a direct comparison between my Kona Sutra and the Bergamont, I see that the Bergamont is a slightly more racier frame with a much longer reach than mine. Looking at a Sonder it falls somewhere between the two.

I see mine as a very relaxed road bike with geometry that feels very close to touring bikes of old. I've retrofitted it with wide flared bars to make it even comfier and handle much better off-road, so yes more slower and relaxed in it's handling, but excellent as a long distance cruising machine whether on road or off. I find websites like this good at comparing bikes to existing ones I own to get an idea for how they might handle.

https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/...,sonder-camino-2024-medium,kona-sutra-2016-m/

As for groupsets, one thought that strikes me is that if you are aiming for more of an on road bike, 1x is going to be a bit harder, especially 1x11. At the faster end of the cassette, certainly the cogs jump up in size by only two teeth each time, but once you get to the middle, the cog size jumps up quite a bit more. Personally I don't see any issues, but then I'm not after speed and perfect cadence and over 80% of my time is off-road where keeping a constant fast cadence is a non issue. 12 speed will mitigate the issue more because while the range will be the same, 11 - 42, there are more cogs to spread the jumps over if that makes sense?

 

[wafter]

Seems you're a bit all over the place with this..

With things currently as they are (crap weather with less opportunity to get out, suppressed market, no burning need to buy something as you have others you can ride) you can really take your time and boil down exactly what you want.

As others have said "gravel bike" can mean anything between a relaxed road bike with fat tyres and an MTB with drops; so give some thought to how you want to use it and pay close attention to the geometry charts. Give consideration to exactly what features you want from the frame and groupset. Consider your existing bikes in terms of fit and spec; what you like and what you don't.

Personally I'd only consider building a bike up from a frame if I couldn't get something off the shelf that worked, since it'll invariably be more expensive / time-consuming, but also potentially rewarding with more opportunity to get things exactly as you want.

I'd also consider used - it seems that some new prices are coming down but these are often in "fire sales" which limit your choices. Gravel bikes appear to have held their value better than some other areas of the market, but usually still represent a big saving compared to new.

Again, personally I only do steel so would be looking at Genesis, Temple, Surley, Salsa, Soma, Crust, Kona and others.. if you're really confident in the spec you want and are buying for life, you might also consider commissioning a custom frame.

I've found my bike-ownership experience to be very iterative, with each successive purchase dancing around the mean of what I want in the perfect bike but as yet never reaching that. Each new bike adds clarity to what I like and what I don't. My Genesis comes close, but aesthetically I'd prefer a more retro aesthetic with lugs, horizontal top tube and curved forks... while I don't much like the gearing or Q-factor of the road-based 2x drivetrain (I'd much prefer a triple)..

You're in no rush; take the time to savour the process and really nail down what's going to suit you the best

 

[wafter]

Oh, and FWIW if you're happy with placcy forks, the spec suits you and you can find one... IMO the 2020 Genesis Fugio appears to be a particularly lovely machine.

I was somewhat tempted by one of these when I bought my CdF; although it wasn't quite as road-centric as I wanted while the fork and 1x put me off..

 

[Punkawallah]

Seems you're a bit all over the place with this..

With things currently are (crap weather with less opportunity to get out, suppressed market, no burning need to buy something as you have others you can ride) you can really take your time and boil down exactly what you want.

As others have said "gravel bike" can mean anything between a relaxed road bike with fat tyres and an MTB with drops; so give some thought to how you want to use it and pay close attention to the geometry charts. Give consideration to exactly what features you want from the frame and groupset. Consider your existing bikes in terms of fit and spec; what you like and what you don't.

Personally I'd only consider building a bike up from a frame if I couldn't get something off the shelf that worked, since it'll invariably be more expensive / time-consuming, but also potentially rewarding with more opportunity to get things exactly as you want.

I'd also consider used - it seems that some new prices are coming down but these are often in "fire sales" which limit your choices. It seems that used gravel bikes have held their value better than some other areas of the market, but still represent a big saving compared to new.

Again, personally I only do steel so would be looking at Genesis, Temple, Surley, Salsa, Soma, Crust, Kona and others.. if you're really confident in the spec you want and are buying for life, you might also consider commissioning a custom frame.

I've found my bike-ownership experience to be very iterative, with each successive purchase dancing around the mean of what I want in the perfect bike but as yet never reaching that. Each new bike adds clarity to what I like and what I don't. My Genesis comes close, but aesthetically I'd prefer a more retro aesthetic with lugs, horizontal top tube and curved forks... while I don't much like the gearing or Q-factor of the road-based 2x drivetrain (I'd much prefer a triple)..

You're in no rush; take the time to savour the process and really nail down what's going to suit you the best

You might get away with a 2x drivetrain on a vintage frame if you source a Suntour 14-32 freewheel. It works fine on my ‘83 Galaxy, with a 34/48 chain set.

 

[wafter]

You might get away with a 2x drivetrain on a vintage frame if you source a Suntour 14-32 freewheel. It works fine on my ‘83 Galaxy, with a 34/48 chain set.

Thanks - although I'd hope something vintage might come with a triple to start with

 

[Punkawallah]

Thanks - although I'd hope something vintage might come with a triple to start with

You might struggle with that if you want fancy lugs - they start to go opinion the 80’s.

 

[wafter]

You might struggle with that if you want fancy lugs - they start to go opinion the 80’s.

Indeed; regardless all of this is undermined by my desire for discs and through-axles which will dictate a new frameset.

Not to worry - I'm lucky to have what I've got and am in no rush.. happy to sit on my hands until the perfect unicorn frameset comes up (I'm yet to see anything off-the-shelf that ticks all the boxes) or I feel sufficiently flush / resolute in my convictions to commission something bespoke.

The Crust Romanceur seems to be the closest to the ideal currently; although (thankfully for my wallet) I'm not keen on any of the more recent colour schemes..

 

[sevenfourate]

Seems you're a bit all over the place with this..

With things currently as they are (crap weather with less opportunity to get out, suppressed market, no burning need to buy something as you have others you can ride) you can really take your time and boil down exactly what you want.

As others have said "gravel bike" can mean anything between a relaxed road bike with fat tyres and an MTB with drops; so give some thought to how you want to use it and pay close attention to the geometry charts. Give consideration to exactly what features you want from the frame and groupset. Consider your existing bikes in terms of fit and spec; what you like and what you don't.

Personally I'd only consider building a bike up from a frame if I couldn't get something off the shelf that worked, since it'll invariably be more expensive / time-consuming, but also potentially rewarding with more opportunity to get things exactly as you want.

I'd also consider used - it seems that some new prices are coming down but these are often in "fire sales" which limit your choices. Gravel bikes appear to have held their value better than some other areas of the market, but usually still represent a big saving compared to new.

Again, personally I only do steel so would be looking at Genesis, Temple, Surley, Salsa, Soma, Crust, Kona and others.. if you're really confident in the spec you want and are buying for life, you might also consider commissioning a custom frame.

I've found my bike-ownership experience to be very iterative, with each successive purchase dancing around the mean of what I want in the perfect bike but as yet never reaching that. Each new bike adds clarity to what I like and what I don't. My Genesis comes close, but aesthetically I'd prefer a more retro aesthetic with lugs, horizontal top tube and curved forks... while I don't much like the gearing or Q-factor of the road-based 2x drivetrain (I'd much prefer a triple)..

You're in no rush; take the time to savour the process and really nail down what's going to suit you the best

Thanks for your thoughts 🙏

But: ‘All over the place’ you say 🤷‍♂️

I initially talked about building a bike myself originally (Built 10+ bikes from absolute scratch in the previous 18 months - so no huge deal). But am now highly considering an off the shelf built. Because it’s sale time. And the fact I’ve taken the time to actually look 🤣 **Ive never discussed used - and wouldn’t consider.

‘Gravel’ does cover a huge range of bikes - you’re right. And Ive previously eluded to that more than once in this thread. And I absolutely know to encourage use / enjoy / be best suited to me and my using on the road / smooth paths where I live - I need to be at the more road-biased / narrower tyre end of that range. Hence nothing I’ve linked to or discussed has been aggressive off-road geometry or 650b / fat tyred / super low geared; mud based behemoths. They have all very much been comprise variants.

I also desire a 1 x chaining. Same as 2 of my others bikes - both of which I enjoy the gearing / range / useage wise. Although in completely different disciplines.

Someone mentioned consistent cadence / gearing. Look at my posts in ‘My ride’ today. I’m probably an avid but useless photographer who enjoys seeing and capturing new places on film in reality. And one who uses bicycles as a mode of transport to do that. I never chase miles, speeds, watts used, calories burnt or use any sort of target as a basis to my cycling. And primarily ride a very very mixed route (Guess why I’m looking for a Gravel bike 😁) I’ve got about as much interest in matching my cadence to my gearing to my terrain as I have washing my hair tonight 😆

And I’d ideally like Hydraulic brakes. Although in this £1000-£1500 price range that’s not a given. Something has to go when built to a price hey….

I also appreciate although I’m on the larger end of large frame size (19 or 20” in MTB / 57 or 58cm in road bikes. I may well need to customise riding position via stem length / rise. And seatpost offset / seat position. Nothing unusual there for many-many riders. Because of this and because I’m a recreational rider who couldn’t extract the last 30% of performance available - let alone 5%. I’m not convinced small geometry differences are worth fretting over - as long as I am in a reasonably ergonomic / comfortable riding position. And don’t suffer during or after rides……

If you still think I’m confused. Then I’m confused 😉

If those thoughts are way off the mark: is a different discussion altogether 🤣