Grass scythe

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classic33

Leg End Member
My interest in scythes is due to having asthma I cannot go anywhere near anyone using a strimmer let alone use one myself nore any other mechanised grass cutting equipment, but I can cut grass with a simple push mower or grass hook with only minor negative affect so I'm wondering if I could cut longer grasses with a scythe .
Yours is an American style blade, and scythe not european/Austrian.

The blade doesn't curve to a point. It's also a two piece one, back edge riveted in place for strength meaning a lighter blade.

https://www.onescytherevolution.com/a-tale-of-two-scythes.html
 

roley poley

Veteran
Location
leeds
I could sharpen one but never use one as they are for right handers ...
 

BigSid

Guru
Location
Hungerford
I had a lesson in scything and maintenance from multi-championship winning Andi Rikard but she's based in Somerset so a bit far for you I suspect. I also have and recommend Steve Tomlin's book "Learn to Scythe". Steve sells it for £16, Andi for £12. It has a section on peening, why and how to.. He also runs courses. Continental blades are made from soft steel and benefit from peening when necessary but a stone is used "in the field". English scythes are harder and need to be shaped on a grindstone. When using a whetstone the edge angle gradually gets steeper and therefore less efficient. I have a peening jig to peen the blade but Steve's book discusses both jig and freehand methods. Rule of thumb is hone with the stone every 4-5 minutes and peen after about 8 hours of scything.
I use a scythe because I'm an early riser and can cut my garden without waking the neighbours.
 
OP
OP
ren531

ren531

Veteran
Location
Lancaster uk
Yours is an American style blade, and scythe not european/Austrian.

The blade doesn't curve to a point. It's also a two piece one, back edge riveted in place for strength meaning a lighter blade.

https://www.onescytherevolution.com/a-tale-of-two-scythes.html

Reading the tale of two scythes the term American and English seem interchangeable, it has a riveted back edge as you say , so grind stone and wet stone seems like the best approach.
 
OP
OP
ren531

ren531

Veteran
Location
Lancaster uk
I had a lesson in scything and maintenance from multi-championship winning Andi Rikard but she's based in Somerset so a bit far for you I suspect. I also have and recommend Steve Tomlin's book "Learn to Scythe". Steve sells it for £16, Andi for £12. It has a section on peening, why and how to.. He also runs courses. Continental blades are made from soft steel and benefit from peening when necessary but a stone is used "in the field". English scythes are harder and need to be shaped on a grindstone. When using a whetstone the edge angle gradually gets steeper and therefore less efficient. I have a peening jig to peen the blade but Steve's book discusses both jig and freehand methods. Rule of thumb is hone with the stone every 4-5 minutes and peen after about 8 hours of scything.
I use a scythe because I'm an early riser and can cut my garden without waking the neighbours.

Thanks I'll have a look at the book . I am blown away by the interest and knowledge about these lovely old tools and great respect to anyone who still has the skill and uses them .
 
European blades are made with a different design/process, requiring the edge to be hardened by hitting with a hammer.
Blades from Britain and the USA are made differently and peening / hitting British origin blades will ruin them.

British scythes rely on having a fairly rough edge to the cutting blade, a little like a very fine serrated knife in miniature, which cuts the weeds/grass a bit like a saw, hence sweeping the blade along in a saw like action against the grass.

European blades rely on being smooth sharp and cut more in the style of a razor blade, relying on a smooth blade.

I seem to remember when I researched this, it was thought to be something to do with not only technological approaches to blade making, but also about the conditions scythes were used in. British scythes cope with damp material better. Summer on the continent is apparently historically drier, so there is less moisture to be found among leaves etc. UK traditional blades are also more practical to sharpen in the field and you can just take a stone with you and you do not need hammers/striking surfaces.

If you go to an old fashioned iron mongers (they do still exist) or to a farm suppliers, now known as 'country stores' (they vary from region to region but 'Mole Valley Farmers' is one) you may find a traditional 'cigar' shaped sharpening stone, thought a bit less common than they were. I got a couple of spare stones from various iron mongers this year - try country town ones rather than city ironmongers.

Such 'stones' are of a course grey grit material, about a foot long and are cylindrical. They are usually hung on display in card backed packets with a clear plastic front. They are fatter in the middle and taper towards the ends. This tapering angle is to help you sharpen things at the correct cutting angle. The stones are brittle, so do not drop them. They should be moistened with water, not oil.

You may also come across a finer stone, very similar to the cylindrical cigar stone, but thin and flat rather than totally round. They also have a cigar shaped profile. You can hold these in the same way - with the shaped taper against the blade. They are less traditional, but will do if you cant find the traditional ones. I have used both designs for sharpening bill hooks, grass hooks (heavy blade flat to handle), hand sythes (lighter blade, set at a cranked angle) etc. I find a grass hook a very handy thing for clearing small bits of garden etc. You can also get smaller garden sythes with a blade about a foot long usually on a tubular metal waist high handle/shaft, its for small areas and you do not need to get down nearer ground level, as you do with a grass hook. I love my grass hook though as it is a hand held tool with a very robust blade, it was apparently often used for clearing ditches etc rather than fine work and cuts well through brambles etc.

Both sharpening stone types will be around £5 to £8 approx. I like to keep a spare, just in case one fractures. You can shapren with just a 'bit' but I dont like my hand to be too close to any blade I am making sharper, so would advise not using a broken stone in the field if avoildable as its nice to have fingers.

Try your local wildlife trust, they often run scything classes, sometimes for free, in the summer months - it is most often then as the grass is a good length and they have land they want to clear at that time.

Keep pets and kids well clear, its not very easy to stop a swinging blade once its in motion and all of the above are very sharp. Kids and pets with legs and faces are also nice things to have!

PS
Always carry your blades covered (in something it cannot pierce easily) or at the very least facing so that if you trip or anyone you are near trips, you will not fall on to the blade or endanger anyone else with it. This also applies if resting it against anything etc.

There is no need to fear sharp blades, but every need to be conscious all the time about where the blade is and how if something goes wrong, it might intereact with you/kids/pets.
 
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OP
OP
ren531

ren531

Veteran
Location
Lancaster uk
European blades are made with a different design/process, requiring the edge to be hardened by hitting with a hammer.
Blades from Britain and the USA are made differently and peening / hitting British origin blades will ruin them.

British scythes rely on having a fairly rough edge to the cutting blade, a little like a very fine serrated knife in miniature, which cuts the weeds/grass a bit like a saw, hence sweeping the blade along in a saw like action against the grass.

European blades rely on being smooth sharp and cut more in the style of a razor blade, relying on a smooth blade.

I seem to remember when I researched this, it was thought to be something to do with not only technological approaches to blade making, but also about the conditions scythes were used in. British scythes cope with damp material better. Summer on the continent is apparently historically drier, so there is less moisture to be found among leaves etc. UK traditional blades are also more practical to sharpen in the field and you can just take a stone with you and you do not need hammers/striking surfaces.

If you go to an old fashioned iron mongers (they do still exist) or to a farm suppliers, now known as 'country stores' (they vary from region to region but 'Mole Valley Farmers' is one) you may find a traditional 'cigar' shaped sharpening stone, thought a bit less common than they were. I got a couple of spare stones from various iron mongers this year - try country town ones rather than city ironmongers.

Such 'stones' are of a course grey grit material, about a foot long and are cylindrical. They are usually hung on display in card backed packets with a clear plastic front. They are fatter in the middle and taper towards the ends. This tapering angle is to help you sharpen things at the correct cutting angle. The stones are brittle, so do not drop them. They should be moistened with water, not oil.

You may also come across a finer stone, very similar to the cylindrical cigar stone, but thin and flat rather than totally round. They also have a cigar shaped profile. You can hold these in the same way - with the shaped taper against the blade. They are less traditional, but will do if you cant find the traditional ones. I have used both designs for sharpening bill hooks, grass hooks (heavy blade flat to handle), hand sythes (lighter blade, set at a cranked angle) etc. I find a grass hook a very handy thing for clearing small bits of garden etc. You can also get smaller garden sythes with a blade about a foot long usually on a tubular metal waist high handle/shaft, its for small areas and you do not need to get down nearer ground level, as you do with a grass hook. I love my grass hook though as it is a hand held tool with a very robust blade, it was apparently often used for clearing ditches etc rather than fine work and cuts well through brambles etc.

Both sharpening stone types will be around £5 to £8 approx. I like to keep a spare, just in case one fractures. You can shapren with just a 'bit' but I dont like my hand to be too close to any blade I am making sharper, so would advise not using a broken stone in the field if avoildable as its nice to have fingers.

Try your local wildlife trust, they often run scything classes, sometimes for free, in the summer months - it is most often then as the grass is a good length and they have land they want to clear at that time.

Keep pets and kids well clear, its not very easy to stop a swinging blade once its in motion and all of the above are very sharp. Kids and pets with legs and faces are also nice things to have!

PS
Always carry your blades covered (in something it cannot pierce easily) or at the very least facing so that if you trip or anyone you are near trips, you will not fall on to the blade or endanger anyone else with it. This also applies if resting it against anything etc.

There is no need to fear sharp blades, but every need to be conscious all the time about where the blade is and how if something goes wrong, it might intereact with you/kids/pets.

Wow thank you for that , that was a very in-depth detailed and very interesting tutorial . I have a couple of older grass hooks that I find really nice to use and always enjoyed sharpening them , I use a sleeve of an old sweat shirt to protect those , so really looking forward to useing my scythe , I have 2 old socks over that blade at the moment . I find the whole subject of scything so interesting and general interest in it seems alive and well .
 

oldwheels

Legendary Member
Location
Isle of Mull
This reminds me that one summer I worked for a nursery and got sent to Garelochhead from Helensburgh to clear [or rather find] the garden of an empty house which was for sale.
I went by the normal service bus with the blade of the scythe wrapped in sacking and nobody batted an eye.
 
OP
OP
ren531

ren531

Veteran
Location
Lancaster uk
This reminds me that one summer I worked for a nursery and got sent to Garelochhead from Helensburgh to clear [or rather find] the garden of an empty house which was for sale.
I went by the normal service bus with the blade of the scythe wrapped in sacking and nobody batted an eye.

Ha ha when doing things like that was normal , you'd get an armed response team today :laugh:
 
I have been trying to remember the name of the garden scythe, with the waist high metal handle. I think its called a scythette.
I have found that some of the names for the bladed hand tools can be somewhat interchangeable from region to region.

Bill hooks are interesting, as there where a huge number of very regional designs and a lot of these variations are still being made or can be aquired 2nd hand. I think it is difficult now for small traditional tool makers as safetly restrictions are prohibitive for small scale blade makers, making it difficult to take on an extra person or sadly an apprentise as upgrading the traditional enviromnent can be very expensive, so only the business owner is legally allowed to work in such conditions. I guess a bit like the rules for who is legally allowed to drive a tractor without a roll-bar (you have to be the owner, due to the safety risks).

One of my regrets in life is that as a child I lived near a multi-generational family of market gardeners who knew all sort of traditional things, like the best way to use hand tools, what some of the weird ones were for and how to make potatoe clamps (winter storage places for potatoes) and I guess lots of other useful things. The last of them would tell the time by looking at the position of the sun, or where he believed it to be. He was amazingly accurate down to just minutes.

Sadly I was too young to understand how much I could learn. My dad, old enough to be aware took no advantage of the neighbours offers to teach as dad was one of those people who say "I am always willing to learn" while going out of their way to show they do not need to be taught anything at all in life, so I could not learn from knowledge (not passed ) to my dad. I feel very sad I did not understand due to my age what a treasure the neighbour was. He was a lovely kind man too.

There are some very helpful YouTube videos on traditional tools and the number have been gradually increasing.
I have a few old hand drills and suchlike and the peace of using them is very noticeable compared to the noise of modern equipment, though rather slower, depending on how much work you have to do. Often quicker actually if its just one or 2 holes in some bit of timber, by the time you have got a drill out and powered it up.

if anyone wants to be impressed, look up scything competitions on YouTube, its amazing the speed the crops are cut and how wide a cut is made in one sweep.

I think in central Europe scything is still a much used harvesting technique, not because they are primitive and lack tractors, but because some areas are too physically difficult to get machinery into, but good for crops.
 

Gillstay

Veteran
I went to Romania a few years back and they were scything as the labour was only £8.00 per day.

The farmer who had me nettle cutting in July 1975 always stressed that I should do a good few sharpening strokes across the top of the blade and then one underneath to take off any burrs. The hardest bit was swinging an adult implement on a peak district hillside. :laugh:
 
OP
OP
ren531

ren531

Veteran
Location
Lancaster uk
I have been trying to remember the name of the garden scythe, with the waist high metal handle. I think its called a scythette.
I have found that some of the names for the bladed hand tools can be somewhat interchangeable from region to region.

Bill hooks are interesting, as there where a huge number of very regional designs and a lot of these variations are still being made or can be aquired 2nd hand. I think it is difficult now for small traditional tool makers as safetly restrictions are prohibitive for small scale blade makers, making it difficult to take on an extra person or sadly an apprentise as upgrading the traditional enviromnent can be very expensive, so only the business owner is legally allowed to work in such conditions. I guess a bit like the rules for who is legally allowed to drive a tractor without a roll-bar (you have to be the owner, due to the safety risks).

One of my regrets in life is that as a child I lived near a multi-generational family of market gardeners who knew all sort of traditional things, like the best way to use hand tools, what some of the weird ones were for and how to make potatoe clamps (winter storage places for potatoes) and I guess lots of other useful things. The last of them would tell the time by looking at the position of the sun, or where he believed it to be. He was amazingly accurate down to just minutes.

Sadly I was too young to understand how much I could learn. My dad, old enough to be aware took no advantage of the neighbours offers to teach as dad was one of those people who say "I am always willing to learn" while going out of their way to show they do not need to be taught anything at all in life, so I could not learn from knowledge (not passed ) to my dad. I feel very sad I did not understand due to my age what a treasure the neighbour was. He was a lovely kind man too.

There are some very helpful YouTube videos on traditional tools and the number have been gradually increasing.
I have a few old hand drills and suchlike and the peace of using them is very noticeable compared to the noise of modern equipment, though rather slower, depending on how much work you have to do. Often quicker actually if its just one or 2 holes in some bit of timber, by the time you have got a drill out and powered it up.

if anyone wants to be impressed, look up scything competitions on YouTube, its amazing the speed the crops are cut and how wide a cut is made in one sweep.

I think in central Europe scything is still a much used harvesting technique, not because they are primitive and lack tractors, but because some areas are too physically difficult to get machinery into, but good for crops.

I totally agree with all your sentiments about old tools , bill hooks and all the incredible skills lost , they had to be skillful to get the best out of them, skills that took a very long time to refine and learn.
Really finding some fantastic you tube videos on these old tools and it's great there's still plenty of interest in them.
 
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I totally agree with all your sentiments about old tools , bill hooks and all the incredible skills lost , they had to be skillful to get the best out of them, skills that took a very long time to refine and learn.
Really finding some fantastic you tube videos on these old tools and it's great there's still plenty of interest in them.

Yes its nice there are visual resources now. Do update this thread with any useful links you find and how you get on with your scythe as I would really like to know of more info and of how it goes for you. It feels more as if you 'belong' to the ground/plants etc in the quiet of hand tools.

It seems there are now Scythe Festivals in the UK, see link to Scythe association below. Sadly they seem a bit down on British tools, but apart from various advantages/disadvantages I imagine europen handles and blades are much cheaper and easier to get as they are still in commercial use in europe, so an easier supply chain / product to sell on to people.

A few links I have on my computer (be aware if buying scythes if you are getting european or Bristish blades given the different sharpening requirements). The blades come in different weight, lengths for different crops etc, also handle length varies

History (bill hooks and hand tools)
https://www.billhooks.co.uk/catalogues/english
https://www.billhooks.co.uk
http://timelesstools.co.uk/morris_dunsford.htm
https://www.theluddite.com/south-west-bills.html

Resources (inc additional suppliers)
https://scytheassociation.org
https://scytheassociation.org/equipment

Shops (scythes, lessons, hand tools)
https://scytheassociation.org/equipment/
http://timelesstools.co.uk (various handtools)
https://www.woodsmith.co.uk/forestry-and-outdoors/billhooks (various tools)
https://www.oldtoolstore.co.uk/index.asp (various tools)
http://www.thescytheshop.co.uk (european style scythes)
https://www.scythecymru.co.uk/shop
 
Just saw this,

https://scytheassociation.org/rust-restoring-and-protecting-scythe-blades

I find letting the blade of any hand tool dry off well in the warm (safe location indoors), then a light swipe of cycle oil (safely back to bikes again here!) via a kitchen towel does the job perfectly well (watch those fingers). Store in a dry place and Roberts your Uncle. WD40 seems an odd choice for storage and olive oil would I think form a bit of a messy hard residue on the blade when it dries out.
 
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