Giro d'Italia 2013, 4th-26th May - [Spoilers]

[jowwy]

Whilst I wouldn't bet my house on it, my gut feeling is that Nibali is clean. OK he looked very strong in yesterday's TT but it's not like he's been beating TT specialists on flat courses and blasting away from climbers in the mountains like Dirty Bertie when he was eating his special beef.

i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance

i hope i'm wrong in this case, because nibali, froome, wiggo etc makes for a good tdf to come

 

[Dave Davenport]

i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance

i hope i'm wrong in this case, because nibali, froome, wiggo etc makes for a good tdf to come

Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.

 

[laurence]

dang, that's this afternoon's tv watching gone then.

no surprises about Di Luca really, i felt it was a matter of time. he always seemed to be of those riders who would never accept he couldn't win without help. good riddance

 

[montage]

So much of much of this edition has been disrupted by the weather. A certain amount of cold, rain, wind and snow is characteristic of the Giro but surely this level of trouble must be seen as bad for the Giro. I wonder if it will be moved back a week or two in the future when the next schedule is filled in.

Cav certainly ought to be in the points jersey at the end now.

Cav's dreams of a white Christmas have come true

 

[VamP]

Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.

It's actually a lot easier to improve at TTing then climbing, as the hallmarks of a good climber are low weight and natural explosiveness, neither of which is easily trained. To be good at TTing you need to work on sustaineable power and position, both of which are a lot more trainable.

 

[jowwy]

Is Nibs getting better at TT's any different than Wiggins getting better at climbing? Both are something you can train to improve at.

who ever said wiggo was a bad climber - he climbs well, he just doesn't have the explosive power of a climber like froome, evans, nibali,

he prefers to sit and spin at a steady rate, which is why he uses a larger cassettes at the rear than most climbers

 

[Dave Davenport]

It's actually a lot easier to improve at TTing then climbing, as the hallmarks of a good climber are low weight and natural explosiveness, neither of which is easily trained. To be good at TTing you need to work on sustaineable power and position, both of which are a lot more trainable.

With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.

 

[montage]

With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.

He's never really had to. Though I have only ever seen him attack twice, once in the 2010 Giro, he got about 10 metres, and earlier this season when he forced a huge selection

 

[Flying_Monkey]

i'm always a bit dubious when somebody like nibali starts to make huge gains in an area that he is not well know for and that is TT's - even tho yesterdays tt was uphill, it still takes a huge amount of sustained effort to do a TT and nibali always used to be more of an explosive type of rider, rather than a rider that can sustain huge efforts over long distance

Nibali has not suddenly become a good TTer from nowhere. He actually was known for his TT skills from the beginning of his career - he was third in both the 2002 juniors and the the 2004 U23 ITT world championships. He also had strong TT results early in his pro career (e.g. Tour of Beijing), but it wasn't something he focused on as his climbing ability was what he was generally deployed for by teams. In the last couple of years as he's become a serious contender at the highest level, he has gone back to trying to build on that basic ability, which he's always had, by working on positioning etc. It's not a complete surprise to see him doing better at TTs if you know his history.

 

[VamP]

He's never really had to. Though I have only ever seen him attack twice, once in the 2010 Giro, he got about 10 metres, and earlier this season when he forced a huge selection

As a pursuiter he has a phenomenal 5 minute power, so he can definitely decimate groups.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It's just been announed that Stage 20 has been severally cut - only the final climb really remains (and will also now be the Coppi trophy climb) with all the other iconic peaks cut because of the continuing snow and low temperatures.

http://www.raisport.rai.it/dl/raisp...tem-f82b3e08-062c-4772-9204-cc5a86276b49.html

 

[ColinJ]

With Wiggins being a perfect example; Loses 7 or 8 kilos and his climbing improves enough to hang on in the mountains, but he's never going to be able to put in explosive attacks.

And that weight loss no doubt has a lot to do with why he suffers so much in bad weather.

I got pretty skinny (by mortal standards) about 10 years ago and really felt the cold that winter, but I was still about 5 kg heavier than Wiggins despite being 4 cm shorter.

 

[smutchin]

I know but then again look at Sastre, widely considered clean, which teams he rode for and who his directeur Sportif was at one time.

Put Nibali's performance in the context of who/what he's beating. You'd imagine a fit Wiggo would have won that time trial yesterday. The 1999 model Armstrong against yesterday's field would have won by a very large margin.

Looking at the numbers from yesterday, the popular estimates seem to in the range 6.0 to 6.4W/kg, which is plausible at the lower end and pushing the limits of credibility at the upper end, but not quite suspicious enough.

The Nibali thread on the Clinic is making for highly entertaining reading at the moment.

Is Sastre really that widely considered to be clean?

 

[Crackle]

Is Sastre really that widely considered to be clean?

He was. I think @Noodley may have read something which cast doubt on it but as far as I know, most in the peloton thought he was clean.

 

[VamP]

Put Nibali's performance in the context of who/what he's beating. You'd imagine a fit Wiggo would have won that time trial yesterday. The 1999 model Armstrong against yesterday's field would have won by a very large margin.

Looking at the numbers from yesterday, the popular estimates seem to in the range 6.0 to 6.4W/kg, which is plausible at the lower end and pushing the limits of credibility at the upper end, but not quite suspicious enough.

The Nibali thread on the Clinic is making for highly entertaining reading at the moment.

Is Sastre really that widely considered to be clean?

6.4 W/kg is a world class FTP by Dr. Coggan's chart, so it shouldn't really indicate a suspicious performance in and of itself.