Giro 2020 SPOILERS !!

[Adam4868]

I wonder if Ineos will change strategy and ride for TGH? He's 2'40" behind Keldeman so will probably need to gain about 3'15" to allow for his worse TT
I'm assuming Almeida will slowly leak time leaving the race Keldeman's to lose
Keldeman is evens which are tough odds for someone who usually finds a way to lose races. TGH is 6/1 if you fancy a punt. Surely he is the only one who could potentially stop Wilko??

Without doubt I think they'll ride for Tao,they've had a great Giro allready.I agree Kelderman is favourite,Sunweb showed how good they were yesterday.Very few could match their pace as seen by Nibali and Fuglsang.But 2 or 3 mins is achievable in the mountains.Wouldnt write any of them off just yet.

 

[Adam4868]

Of course, but the only non-GT-winner they ever had finish on the podium is Uran once, isn't it? Apart from him and Froome, they either win (as a team), or fall apart and stand around looking like daffodils instead of showing some fighting spirit.

Change strategy during a race??? Do they even understand the idea?

Yea right...disastrous Giro there having 🙄

 

[Beebo]

Of course, but the only non-GT-winner they ever had finish on the podium is Uran once, isn't it? Apart from him and Froome, they either win (as a team), or fall apart and stand around looking like daffodils instead of showing some fighting spirit.

Change strategy during a race??? Do they even understand the idea?

Hindsight is great but It would have been a brave call to abandon the plan A on day 1 without giving it a go.

 

[mjr]

Hindsight is great but It would have been a brave call to abandon the plan A on day 1 without giving it a go.

There are other choices than your suggestion of abandoning plan A on day 1 and Sky's repeated error of letting problems with plan A damage plan B too. If Sky's management were running UAE at the Tour, they would have sent Pogačar back to help Aru.

 

[matticus]

Sky didn't have a serious plan B for this race.

In 2018's Tour they had Froome and Thomas as protected riders - I think before then, in every other Tour de France they've gone for the "Postal" approach of going all-in for One Guy.

Also, remember that G was riding pretty well during the stage when he crashed, at least for a few hours.

 

[Adam4868]

Sky didn't have a serious plan B for this race.

In 2018's Tour they had Froome and Thomas as protected riders - I think before then, in every other Tour de France they've gone for the "Postal" approach of going all-in for One Guy.

Also, remember that G was riding pretty well during the stage when he crashed, at least for a few hours.

Tao looks to be a pretty good plan B as far as I've seen ?
As for the all in for one rider that everyone seems to dislike...been pretty successful for them if we're going of results ?
What's the relevance of G riding well for a few hours ? It was pure sh1t luck that took him out,you wouldn't of backed against him winning this either.

 

[matticus]

I think you're misreading my angle here Adam.

I meant G was riding OK straight after the accident, so it made sense for the team to keep backing him; if he was clearly too injured to finish the stage it would have been logical to send all the "senior" riders off down the road, to maintain their chances.

 

[Adam4868]

Back to the race...time gaps don't mean much until we get to the top of the Sestriere ! Fingers crossed 🤞

View: https://twitter.com/laflammerouge16/status/1318113805579259904?s=19

 

[mjr]

Tao looks to be a pretty good plan B as far as I've seen ?

He would have been an even better one if he hadn't lost almost 2 minutes on Kelderman on stage 3 after being abandoned by his team for the final climb in favour of the stricken Thomas.

As for the all in for one rider that everyone seems to dislike...been pretty successful for them if we're going of results ?

That depends how you add up results. They've only been top team in 2012 and 2017, largely thanks to Wiggins's Paris-Nice/Dauphine/Romandie/Tour win sequence in 2012 and Froome's double GTs in 2017.

What's the relevance of G riding well for a few hours ? It was pure sh1t luck that took him out,you wouldn't of backed against him winning this either.

I would have hedged my bets. Why wouldn't you?

 

[Adam4868]

He would have been an even better one if he hadn't lost almost 2 minutes on Kelderman on stage 3 after being abandoned by his team for the final climb in favour of the stricken Thomas.

Maybe...like I said he's a pretty good plan B though.

That depends how you add up results. They've only been top team in 2012 and 2017, largely thanks to Wiggins's Paris-Nice/Dauphine/Romandie/Tour win sequence in 2012 and Froome's double GTs in 2017.

You can add it up,talk it however you want.The fact is they have been consistently the dominating grand tour team.Their results speak for themselves.

I would have hedged my bets. Why wouldn't you?

Not sure what you mean ? But I rarely back favourites.

 

[mjr]

You can add it up,talk it however you want.The fact is they have been consistently the dominating grand tour team.Their results speak for themselves.

GT winning teams since 2010: Liquigas, RadioShack, Katusha, Astana, Garmin-Cervelo, Geox, Lampre, RadioShack, Movistar, Sky, Saxo-Tinkoff, Euskatel, Ag2r, Ag2r, Katusha, Astana, Movistar, Movistar, Astana, Movistar, BMC, Movistar, Sky, Astana, Sky, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar.

I don't know about you, but that doesn't look like being "consistently the dominating grand tour team" to me.

A list of the teams of GT winners looks slightly better, but still not "consistently dominating" two of them: Giros: Liquigas, Lampre, Garmin, Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Astana, Sunweb, Sky, Movistar; Tours: SaxoBank, BMC, Sky, Sky, Astana, Sky, Sky, Sky, Sky, Ineos, UAE; Vueltas: Liquigas, Sky, SaxoBank, RadioShack, Tinkoff-Saxo, Astana, Movistar, Sky, Michelton, Jumbo.

Is the same old stubborn refusal to recognise when reality has overruled Plan A going to stop them winning this Giro too?

 

[Adam4868]

GT winning teams since 2010: Liquigas, RadioShack, Katusha, Astana, Garmin-Cervelo, Geox, Lampre, RadioShack, Movistar, Sky, Saxo-Tinkoff, Euskatel, Ag2r, Ag2r, Katusha, Astana, Movistar, Movistar, Astana, Movistar, BMC, Movistar, Sky, Astana, Sky, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar.

I don't know about you, but that doesn't look like being "consistently the dominating grand tour team" to me.

A list of the teams of GT winners looks slightly better, but still not "consistently dominating" two of them: Giros: Liquigas, Lampre, Garmin, Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Astana, Sunweb, Sky, Movistar; Tours: SaxoBank, BMC, Sky, Sky, Astana, Sky, Sky, Sky, Sky, Ineos, UAE; Vueltas: Liquigas, Sky, SaxoBank, RadioShack, Tinkoff-Saxo, Astana, Movistar, Sky, Michelton, Jumbo.

Is the same old stubborn refusal to recognise when reality has overruled Plan A going to stop them winning this Giro too?

I'd say it's more a stubborn refusal by you to acknowledge that sky/Ineos have been the team to beat for the last 10 years at grand tours ? Results speak for themselves.
As for this plan A,B sh1te.I think no matter how the Giro ends Ineos have had a blinder,five stage wins so far.
I seem to remember a lot moaning about their robotic/predictable racing ? Now as in the Tour they've had a chance to take stages on,give some of the other riders a chance to shine.Ive enjoyed them.Id say far from being a disaster it's been a PR boom !

 

[nickyboy]

I think you're misreading my angle here Adam.

I meant G was riding OK straight after the accident, so it made sense for the team to keep backing him; if he was clearly too injured to finish the stage it would have been logical to send all the "senior" riders off down the road, to maintain their chances.

TGH was in the main GC Group on the Etna climb. He wasn't with Thomas
His losses that day were just down to him, nothing to do with Thomas' crash. Now the question is whether that day was the one off or whether Sunday was the one off

 

[nickyboy]

GT winning teams since 2010: Liquigas, RadioShack, Katusha, Astana, Garmin-Cervelo, Geox, Lampre, RadioShack, Movistar, Sky, Saxo-Tinkoff, Euskatel, Ag2r, Ag2r, Katusha, Astana, Movistar, Movistar, Astana, Movistar, BMC, Movistar, Sky, Astana, Sky, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar, Movistar.

I don't know about you, but that doesn't look like being "consistently the dominating grand tour team" to me.

A list of the teams of GT winners looks slightly better, but still not "consistently dominating" two of them: Giros: Liquigas, Lampre, Garmin, Astana, Movistar, Tinkoff, Astana, Sunweb, Sky, Movistar; Tours: SaxoBank, BMC, Sky, Sky, Astana, Sky, Sky, Sky, Sky, Ineos, UAE; Vueltas: Liquigas, Sky, SaxoBank, RadioShack, Tinkoff-Saxo, Astana, Movistar, Sky, Michelton, Jumbo.

Is the same old stubborn refusal to recognise when reality has overruled Plan A going to stop them winning this Giro too?

You're undermining your argument by using the Team Classification. It's widely understood and ridiculed that Movistar is the only team to care about this.

GT winners is a far better metric and everyone knows that Sky went all in on the TdF which is always the most competitive GT field. They won it consistently with Wiggins/Froome/Thomas/Bernal. For Sky the Giro and Vuelta were sideshows.

I'm deffo no Sky/Ineos fanboy but the facts speak for themselves

 

[mjr]

I'd say it's more a stubborn refusal by you to acknowledge that sky/Ineos have been the team to beat for the last 10 years at grand tours ? Results speak for themselves.

Indeed: the results say theirs is the leader to beat at the Tour but not the team and they usually do naff all at the Giro.

As for this plan A,B sh1te.I think no matter how the Giro ends Ineos have had a blinder,five stage wins so far.
I seem to remember a lot moaning about their robotic/predictable racing ? Now as in the Tour they've had a chance to take stages on,give some of the other riders a chance to shine.Ive enjoyed them.Id say far from being a disaster it's been a PR boom !

They're riding like a second-division wildcard team without a plan! If that's what you like, good for you!

TGH was in the main GC Group on the Etna climb. He wasn't with Thomas
His losses that day were just down to him, nothing to do with Thomas' crash. [...]

Everyone but TGH and Swift was sent back to Thomas. Swift wasn't really ideal support for TGH on a climb, was he? But hey, watch the last 30k and tell me where you saw him get any team support.