Getting a new 20 limit enforced

[nameinuse]

The middle of Brighton and Hove has just gone to a blanket 20 limit. This is, on balance, a good thing, and will be even better come the invasion-of-the-lobster-people over the summer. However, the limit isn't being respected or, apparently, enforced.

Has anyone had any success getting speed limits properly enforced? What's the best group to contact? I think a few days of mobile speed-camera stuff and some stop-for-a-chat would have a significant difference. That and taking away taxi licenses for speeding...

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

People tend to think only of enforcement, not realizing that it is a cultural problem requiring more than just controls and enforcement. Have a look at the 20's Plenty web site for information and ideas.

 

[sidevalve]

It seems a little hypocrittical to to arguing for 20 mph limits while, in another post plenty of people on this forum are either bragging about or accepting cyclists exceeding a 30 limit. Speed limits, when imposed, are not simply to slow down car drivers for the benefit of cyclists but to slow down traffic [all traffic] for the safety of everyone. Acting like irresposible kids just because cyclists can "get away with it" is a bit pathetic and the argument " oh well I'm only on a bike" really isn't going to work forever. The "cultural" problem is not just with the car drivers.

 

[Amanda P]

Steady, Sidevalve. It would be hypocritical if one person argued for 20mph limits but routinely broke 30mph ones. Nameinuse has done no such thing (as far as we know) - he's just asking for advice.

 

[BSRU]

As far as I am aware the police do not enforce 20mph limits, they rely on the drivers to have self control

 

[Amanda P]

I was Appalled (of Bognor Regis) to read that the police in York had announced they weren't going to enforce the 20 mph limits set up there.

That's a mistaken policy in my view, but why announce it?!

They could just not enforce them but keep quiet about it, but to announce it makes a total mockery of having them in the first place. Bizarre.

 

[mickle]

It seems a little hypocrittical to to arguing for 20 mph limits while, in another post plenty of people on this forum are either bragging about or accepting cyclists exceeding a 30 limit. Speed limits, when imposed, are not simply to slow down car drivers for the benefit of cyclists but to slow down traffic [all traffic] for the safety of everyone. Acting like irresposible kids just because cyclists can "get away with it" is a bit pathetic and the argument " oh well I'm only on a bike" really isn't going to work forever. The "cultural" problem is not just with the car drivers.

Tripe. Why don't you compare the number of deaths caused by cars with the number of deaths caused by cyclists and try to reset your skewed veiwpoint. The danger posed to vulnerable road users by cars is not in any doubt. Slowing cars down reduces KSI rates. So it seems a little fricking stoopid to be arguing for cyclists to slow down when they pose vitually zero risk to other road users. Your attitude is symptomatic of society's hatred of cyclists, which is so pernicious that it infects our own ranks.

BTW and FYI, there are no speed limits for pedal cycles.

 

[BSRU]

I was Appalled (of Bognor Regis) to read that the police in York had announced they weren't going to enforce the 20 mph limits set up there.

That's a mistaken policy in my view, but why announce it?!

They could just not enforce them but keep quiet about it, but to announce it makes a total mockery of having them in the first place. Bizarre.

My local police do not bother to enforce speed limits, apart from a couple of days a year when the weather is nice.
Driving around the town at the speed limit results in tailgating and abuse from people who realise they are not going to get caught.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I doubt there is a single police force in E&W that say they are going to enforce 20mph limits. In the main they are not fans.

Anyway, if you live in the City of Brighton and Hove Actually, you are policed by Sussex Police. Sussex Police run Operation Crackdown enabling you to report egregious, and other, examples of anti-social driving.

 

[Richard Mann]

BTW and FYI, there are no speed limits for pedal cycles.

Only an obligation not to ride in an inconsiderate, careless or dangerous manner. That covers most over-speed-limit riding, but it does make it a bit harder to prove, so you'd be far more likely to be let off with a raised eyebrow.

 

[nameinuse]

I do understand that enforcement is only part of the picture, but it is a vital part. Taking a quick look at the 20's plenty site seems to give lots of stuff about campaigning for having a limit introduced. This is great of course, but perhaps as this is one of the first few city-wide limits to actually happen the advice on making it stick isn't so in-depth. That's partly why I posted the question in the first place.

I think non-enforcement of limits is a very bad move by the police; it undermines the authority of all speed limits, and it runs counter to the wishes of the population who identified speeding traffic as the single biggest cause of anti-social behaviour in the recent ONS paper. I'm regularly on-record as saying that I think all traffic laws should be enforced for all road-users. That said, where resources are constrained the ones that do the most harm should be targeted first. It's clear some cyclists have a reprehensible knack for scaring little old ladies, but some drivers have a knack for killing them. Whilst it's besides the moral point, it's also true as mickle mentioned that speed limits do not apply to non-motorised vehicles in law. Of course we, as cyclists, need to be part of a more careful, respectful, road use culture, but I see no hypocrisy for asking for a 20-limit in a built-up, demonstrably dangerous area to be properly enforced.

Thanks for the info about op crackdown Greg, I know it well! I've had some moderate success myself reporting really scary driving, it's a very sensible scheme. So, anyone had luck contacting PCCs, or attending the local police liaison groups, contacting their councils, or anything like that?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Thanks for the info about op crackdown Greg, I know it well! I've had some moderate success myself reporting really scary driving, it's a very sensible scheme. So, anyone had luck contacting PCCs, or attending the local police liaison groups, contacting their councils, or anything like that?

outside the city, in West Sussex, we have to go through CLC (County Local Committees) to get anything on any agenda, police, local authority, safety partnerships, et cetera. CLC's are a charade and a waste of effort in the main. Get the press there, get a human interest angle ad stand up and get shouty seems to be the only tactic that works. (In "North Horsham" anyway) Behave reasonably and you'll get brushed off.

And, no excrement sherlock, the Big Society and Localism are jokes as far as cycling and road safety are concerned.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Hooray!!!

similar things happening down the road here....butno blanket 20mph limit yet as far as I know.

Had a conservative election canvasser knock yesterday...snobby gobby woman she was ..anyway..

"I trust we can rely on your support on my 2nd?"

"NO"

"Ohooo..! one wonders why not?"

"One is voting lim dim because they are getting 20 mph limits set up"

"Well....the trouble with that is that nobody can get anywhere..scoff"

"Rubbish...Im a cyclist and I will get there safer and happier "

"Is it reeeaally that importantto you?"

"YEP"

" Well then we will do that as well then"

"Right"

Bye.

 

[sidevalve]

Tripe. Why don't you compare the number of deaths caused by cars with the number of deaths caused by cyclists and try to reset your skewed veiwpoint. The danger posed to vulnerable road users by cars is not in any doubt. Slowing cars down reduces KSI rates. So it seems a little fricking stoopid to be arguing for cyclists to slow down when they pose vitually zero risk to other road users. Your attitude is symptomatic of society's hatred of cyclists, which is so pernicious that it infects our own ranks.

BTW and FYI, there are no speed limits for pedal cycles.

Tripe x2. Seems we all love laws that apply to someone else. FYI if you read the post you will note that I didn't say that the limits [at the moment] apply to cyclists. Secondly because such accidents are rare I fail to see why, if they do happen [and sometimes they do] they can be discounted. As for a skewed viewpoint I have ridden and driven just about everything on and off the road fron a unicycle [ouch] to a HGV and although I love cycling I can't stand the attitude of "let's bring in more laws to regulate everybody else" but if any restrictions on cyclists were suggested then there would be a major outcry and loud wailing. By all means bring in the speed limits but let's stop bragging about them not applying to us.
Technology has changed from the days of "clockwork" speedometers and it would be so easy to "regulate" cycling. If you want to keep on with the "Ha Ha, look at me" attitude then fine, p--s enough people off and things will change. I just want to keep on riding free and if that means keeping the speed down a tad sometimes, so be it.
You want respect and consideration from others but don't want to show any back
PS I'd take that chip off the shoulder, youll feel a lot better.

 

[subaqua]

Tripe x2. Seems we all love laws that apply to someone else. FYI if you read the post you will note that I didn't say that the limits [at the moment] apply to cyclists. Secondly because such accidents are rare I fail to see why, if they do happen [and sometimes they do] they can be discounted. As for a skewed viewpoint I have ridden and driven just about everything on and off the road fron a unicycle [ouch] to a HGV and although I love cycling I can't stand the attitude of "let's bring in more laws to regulate everybody else" but if any restrictions on cyclists were suggested then there would be a major outcry and loud wailing. By all means bring in the speed limits but let's stop bragging about them not applying to us.
Technology has changed from the days of "clockwork" speedometers and it would be so easy to "regulate" cycling. If you want to keep on with the "Ha Ha, look at me" attitude then fine, p--s enough people off and things will change. I just want to keep on riding free and if that means keeping the speed down a tad sometimes, so be it.
You want respect and consideration from others but don't want to show any back
PS I'd take that chip off the shoulder, youll feel a lot better.

force= mass x acceleration . to misquote a fictional spacetraveller ye cannae change the laws of physics .

a 1 ton car ( and thats about the lightest general production car - caterham come in at a shade under 600kg but they are really weekend toys ) at 20mph is going to exert a lot more force and therefore do a lot more damage than a 20 Kg bike and a 100kg rider ever could at 30mph.

nobody is bragging about them not applying , its just that they don't ( some minor exceptions for royal parks etc - to keep the dangly necklaces happy) and most cyclists don't exceed the limits for motor vehicles on a regular basis.

there is a wealth of info available on the speed limitr and how and why it was introduced.