Getting ‘left hooked’. What do you think?

[presta]

Avoid debates as to fault or right/wrong by staying safe.

Better still, avoid debates as to fault or right/wrong by not creating contentious road layouts.

 

[presta]

However, the main fault in this is the design (or lack) of the infrastructure.

Yes.

A crappy narrow bike lane that ends at the junction

A crappy narrow bike lane that puts the cyclist on the near side of traffic turning left.

 

[winjim]

Is it just me or do some car manufacturers seem to specialise in indicators (especially on the front) which are very difficult to see in some circumstances.

I can't stand those weird chase ones. The second it takes my brain to process them is a second I could be using to observe and interpret other potential hazards. Same with the DRLs that switch on and off as you indicate and turn corners. It's too much input.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Looking and seeing are two different things. Most drivers dont know how to use their eyes.

I always interpret 'I didn't see you' to mean 'I wasn't looking'.

 

[Badger_Boom]

I can't stand those weird chase ones. The second it takes my brain to process them is a second I could be using to observe and interpret other potential hazards. Same with the DRLs that switch on and off as you indicate and turn corners. It's too much input.

I was crossing a road on foot yeaterday and found myself looking at a car with this feature (actually - DRLs that didn't dim and indicators very close together) and it took me a good double take and a stare to work out if it was indicating or not.

It sometimes feels like the rules on car lighting design must have been relaxed when I wasn't looking, especially given how often my old VW with clear lenses and coloured lamps failed its MOT because the lamps were no longer sufficiently orange.

I Also hate the 'moving' LED ones - the human eye is drawn to movement and I find them very distracting in a way that a simple regular flash isn't.

 

[MichaelW2]

Ive seen indicators that are integral to side lights and simply change colour from white to amber when flashing.
Dont get me started in the poor visibility of the RHS indicator as you approach from the left. Back when cars had corners you could see both indicators from one side. Now you cant.

 

[tyred]

There is someone in town who drives an old Renault 11 and the one thing that I note about it if I come across it at a roundabout or junction is how crystal clear and visible the indicators are. Nice big orange things on each extremity.

Modern lighting is designed for style rather than practicality in my opinion.

 

[mjr]

This is precisely why cycle paths and lanes are less safe than riding on the road: a left turner on the right and a vehicle on the left going straight ahead, both of whom are adamant they have the right of way. Most accidents occur at junctions, not between junctions, so cycle paths reduce the minor problem, and increase the major one.

This is part of why we don't get nice things. They may both be "adamant they have the right of way" but the turning vehicle operator is wrong and we should tell them they are wrong, rather than pretend they are correct! It is very disappointing to read someone on a cycling forum trotting out these old motorist myths.

We should, of course, lay junctions out so that the cyclist has more warning to spot and avoid an incompetent motorist: either by bending the carriageway right, away from the cycleway, so that the paths cross at right angles; or where there are traffic lights, by holding their left turn while the cycleway has a green.

If motor lanes were laid out the same way cycle lanes, nobody would have any difficulty whatsoever in seeing the crass stupidity of it:
View attachment 600269

Except that exact layout happens at various places! Even better, there are some level junctions on fast/busy roads where the lanes are: left turn, right turn, ahead, ahead. I believe that's because it's considered undesirable to get turning lorries into lane 3/4 and wait for a gap in oncoming traffic. The conflict is prevented by the junction traffic lights not showing green to both right and ahead at the same time. We could do this — and much more — for cycleways, if highways departments were willing to install better signal controllers instead of the simple stupid ones widespread in the UK.

(There are, of course, many junctions where the right turn lane is on the left and the roads cross using a bridge to keep them apart.)

[...] If there's any room to argue about who has the right of way, the road design is plainly at fault.

So every single unmarked junction and all those modern shared spaces are all "plainly at fault"? What about crossroads where right-turning vehicles arrive at opposite minor arms simultaneously? Plenty of room to argue who goes first there.

 

[mjr]

Same with the DRLs that switch on and off as you indicate and turn corners. It's too much input.

Those are awful! The low difference between bright yellow and white is too little, so if they are close together, it can be difficult to tell at a glance if it is a DRL or an indicator in the "on" phase.

I'm pretty sure I've been fooled more than once (as I've seen the side/back indicator as they turn across me), but saved by my expectation that some left-hooking motorists don't indicate so I try to adjust my speed so I'm not crossing a junction mouth next to a motorist.

 

[yello]

I'm reminded of some time I spent in Germany. I was astounded to see a right turning car stop in their lane to allow a cyclist pass on their inside - and my German friend explained to me that that was the law. Now I'm sure not every German driver would have obeyed the law but it stunned me to even see it happen.