Genesis Tour de Fer 30.

[Oldhippy]

Thank you all for your considerable input. A lot to think on indeed. I am already thinking on the wise words of @HobbesOnTour and @wafter with the if it ain't broke thinking. As Hobbes pointed out further up the thread use the money to stay out longer has a definite appeal as well.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

use the money to stay out longer has a definite appeal as well.

It's a perfectly reasonable approach to me but it's still possible to keep your eyes open for the "perfect" bike that has exactly what you want. (Hence the suggestion to know what you want in advance.)

There are always bargains to be had, especially in the second hand market. The only issue (for me) with second hand is that a frame warranty usually only applies to the original owner. Mind you, if you're far away from home or in a foreign country a warranty may not be worth very much.

Of course, the other option is to get yourself a go-pro, a drone, a laptop and a YouTube/Vimeo channel and wait for the sponsorship offers to roll in

Good luck!

 

[Oldhippy]

It's a perfectly reasonable approach to me but it's still possible to keep your eyes open for the "perfect" bike that has exactly what you want. (Hence the suggestion to know what you want in advance.)

There are always bargains to be had, especially in the second hand market. The only issue (for me) with second hand is that a frame warranty usually only applies to the original owner. Mind you, if you're far away from home or in a foreign country a warranty may not be worth very much.

Of course, the other option is to get yourself a go-pro, a drone, a laptop and a YouTube/Vimeo channel and wait for the sponsorship offers to roll in

Good luck!

Funny you mention the drone etc, after seeing the video you posted, having read so many books and accounts of those like yourself who don't talk about it they get on and live the dream. I have toured, but nothing like the extent you guys are doing but I am nearly there for a meagre retirement and planning on making the absolute best I can of it. Who knows a coffee table book of my bike in front of touring photos one day!

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Funny you mention the drone etc, after seeing the video you posted, having read so many books and accounts of those like yourself who don't talk about it they get on and live the dream. I have toured, but nothing like the extent you guys are doing but I am nearly there for a meagre retirement and planning on making the absolute best I can of it. Who knows a coffee table book of my bike in front of touring photos one day!

To really throw the cat amongst the pigeons (and depending on your plans) what about a folding bike?
You already have a bike that (presumably) is good for the UK which also means a whole lot of Europe.
A folding bike (or an S&S coupling) really makes transport easier. That can really open up worlds.
For similar spends you get to add a whole new type of touring to your stable.

Who knows a coffee table book of my bike in front of touring photos one day!

Somewhere in an attic I have three, supermarket printed. I ❤️ them. As handy as the digital world is nothing beats a proper photograph.

 

[Petrichorwheels]

I would not change a Koga for a Genesis. I had the Genesis CDF 20 and the Alex Rim wheels were not good. I changed to the Koga World Traveller and it is a RTW all year bike. The one bike I will never sell.

but if it was just the rims not a deal breaker surely? Can always use as a reserve and get another set of wheels (like from Spa) for the heavy stuff. Or was there something else?

 

[Petrichorwheels]

As popular as the Disc Trucker is I have gone right off Surly as a company - and not just because of the huge increases in prices.

care to say more Hobbes?
Am genuinely interested, and am sure others would be.

Have been into cycling long enough to remember when they had a certain utilitarian/sensible image, but they do seem to have decided to monetize this. Sod that as far as I'm concerned.

But you hint at other factors - am interested.

 

[steveindenmark]

but if it was just the rims not a deal breaker surely? Can always use as a reserve and get another set of wheels (like from Spa) for the heavy stuff. Or was there something else?

The bike itself was really heavy. It was comfortable though. I had too many bikes and it was the one that I decided to get rid of. Jannie sold hers at the same time. We sold them to a couple who are riding round the world on them.

 

[wafter]

I would not change a Koga for a Genesis. I had the Genesis CDF 20 and the Alex Rim wheels were not good. I changed to the Koga World Traveller and it is a RTW all year bike. The one bike I will never sell.

FWIW my CdF has the Jalco rims that replaced the Alex Rims on the preceding bikes. Can't compare the two, but can say that mine have remained true and fault-free for 4k miles of mostly road but some less compromising off-road action..

care to say more Hobbes?
Am genuinely interested, and am sure others would be.

Have been into cycling long enough to remember when they had a certain utilitarian/sensible image, but they do seem to have decided to monetize this. Sod that as far as I'm concerned.

But you hint at other factors - am interested.

I too am interested to hear more about Surley. FWIW I've always viewed them as a bit of a yank alternative to Genesis in that they're a bit left of the field and respected. That said this might be doing them a disservice as they do have a wider range of bits and perhaps they fab their frames in-house (Genesis stuff is outsourced to Taiwan, not that I have any issues with the quality of my frame).

From what I've see they seem like a solid, utilitarian choice but somewhat middle-of-the-road and not nec. something to be put on a pedestal alongside really high end tourers.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

I too am interested to hear more about Surley

I don't like that they dropped the bike that established them - The LHT.
I know there's a disc version but I'm not a disc man. I may be mistaken but I don't think they do the Disc version with 26 inch wheels either.

I don't like that they now seem to have a stable of models that can be dropped suddenly. Like the LHT or the Ogre. At one time I seriously considered upgrading to an Ogre as the ultimate, every-option-possible, go-anywhere bike.

It's been a while but the last time I visited their site it was full of crap. I don't want to buy Surly merchandise and not terribly impressed by a company that produces it. I'm a consumer, not a fan.

To my mind they've become trendy and I must be getting old but that doesn't sit well with me because bikes for touring must be the unsexiest, least trendy type of bike.
(Touring in this sense is the loaded variety. Bikepacking is exciting and sexy and trendy).

Then there's the prices which have jumped with a reduction in quality of components. But I said I'd leave that out of the discussion.

To my way of thinking a bike is for life and I'd expect to have a lifetime relationship with the company. I'd prefer a stable entity like SJS/Thorn than Surly.
I believe Spa are good too although I've no direct experience.
And after a recent Frenchman's rant (on these fora) about Sonder I might consider them too.
Koga are huge in NL but I think a lot of their bikes now are aluminium and Stephen/John Peel formerly of this parish set off on a custom Rohloff equipped Koga and had to return to the UK from France after undiagnosed incompatibility between frame and Rohloff. (If memory serves correctly, Rohloff changed something and Koga didn't make the necessary adjustments to the frame). The service from Koga left a lot to be desired. I'd expect a well established Touring Bike company to be more on the ball and to not require a return to the original dealer.
By comparison, I smashed my SON dynohub - totally my own fault - during the Pandemic. When I could make contact with an agent (abroad) I had a replacement inside of a week! To the other side of the world. Free.

That's my type of company.

A Rohloff equipped bike like the OP is considering is in the ballpark of 4k, 4.5? If I'm spending that I want a good feeling about the company.

That's just me.

I ride a 25 year old runt of the Trek litter. What do I know?

 

[Vantage]

I believe Spa are good too although I've no direct experience.


I ride a 25 year old runt of the Trek litter. What do I know?

They're not bad but I think they're jumping on the "let's bring out a new model for the sake of it" bandwagon.
First there was the traditional touring bike available in ti and steel.
Then came the rough stuff tourer for those who wanted a tourer with bigger tyres.
Then came the wayfarer for those who wanted bigger still tyres and disc brakes...like me
Now there's the detour which fits smack bang between the wayfarer and traditional tourer but with tighter clearances than the roughstuff. I mean, what the hell for?

What do you know? Dunno but you've done something many of us dream of and have the experience of it. I'll take that knowledge over a touring bike guide book anyday.
Still gonna drink my Guinness from a pot though despite your protests.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Still gonna drink my Guinness from a pot though despite your protests.

You can lead a horse to water.....
But he's still going to drink Guinness from a pot!

I mean, what the hell for?

That's the $1, 000,000 question.

There are so many options now - not just for bikes, but for tents and stoves and rain jackets and........ The choice can be overwhelming.

Since you mentioned beer......
I remember when the German brewing laws were repealed (under EU law) and the German brewing industry was faced with a flood of cheap, foreign and substandard beers. (Thank you, Stella Artois, Satan's brewer).

The brewers met to decide what to do and decided.............. to change absolutely nothing.

They believed in their products. They understood their customers.

There was a dip as the likes of Heineken got into the market but the German brewers are stronger than ever. (It's been a few years since I checked).

Trends come and go. A bike (for me) is permanent.

I can't help but think that all the online activity plays a part too. Forums like this are filled with discussion on what's "new". There's a subtle pressure to upgrade, to "improve". The public want the newest and the companies feel pressure to comply.
I don't mean to knock anyone who wants to get a new bike - we're all different - but new doesn't always mean better.
Fit me out with a fast, light machine and all the ultralite gear I can fit in a saddlebag and I'll still struggle to improve my average speed. I enjoy my pace. I don't want to miss a thing.

I can't tell you the number of times I've misplaced my bike the last few months as I've explored Spanish mountain towns on foot. (They can be like a 3D maze). If the bike cost 4k I'd have had very different reactions

 

[Arrowfoot]

Thank you all for your considerable input. A lot to think on indeed. I am already thinking on the wise words of @HobbesOnTour and @wafter with the if it ain't broke thinking. As Hobbes pointed out further up the thread use the money to stay out longer has a definite appeal as well.

Take a punt if it is going to be a lifetime thing and you want to enjoy your rides/tours. And if you can afford it. Tourers tend to show their bike setup and give feedback. Found them informative.

Surly

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC4elY4eHPw

Koga

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20yIv5gd7Q

Kona

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYr7XhMNSTw

Genesis

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjtUBuE6-T0

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Take a punt if it is going to be a lifetime thing and you want to enjoy your rides/tours

With respect, I'm not sure that "taking a punt" or gambling on a new 4k bike is appropriate in this case.
I'm also not convinced that a new bike means I'll enjoy tours more.

Other people's experiences are all well and good but they really only apply when they match our intentions.

Case in point: I spent a long time researching tents and had a shortlist of what I wanted. Seeing one on sale on CGOAB I contacted the seller. It was sold but we had a chat about the tent. Perfect! Wonderful for bike touring! Never a problem or a complaint.
Some time later having bought mine and having issues with pitching - a design "feature" is an uneven fly meaning that ground has to be totally flat and pegging out is a slow, fiddly process- I contacted that seller again.
Ah yes! It's not the easiest tent to pitch but since their "touring" was to set up a basecamp and do day rides a few extra minutes looking for the best pitch and a few extra minutes perfecting everything wasn't a hardship. For them. On a cold, wet night in the dark it was a hardship for me!
(To add insult to injury the long term life of the tent was compromised by cats in one instance and ants in another. Something that came up nowhere in any reviews!) It was infuriating to spend so much on a top of the range tent and have it damaged in such a random fashion.

I imagine it's the same for bikes. If someone uses their bike differently to how I plan to use mine their experience is not as useful.

And the really tricky thing is that our intentions can change over time. When I started out a cyclepath along a river was my idea of adventure. A bike bought specifically for that wouldn't suit me today.

I thank the Touring Gods that I resisted the salesman who tried to sell me a brand new bike instead of servicing and putting a rack on my (donated) bike! Knowing me, I would only have gone places where it was suitable (flat and smooth) and would have been extremely protective of such an expensive item.

When I was a kid I had to buy shoes that were too big for me so that I'd grow into them. Not a bad idea for buying a bike, either - one that expands with our dreams

 

[Oldhippy]

As always Hobbes, thoughtful and measured. As I mentioned previously I have a lot to think on and although I know I won't get it perfect first time like you I want to know there is a certain amount of elasticity getting things I will need daily just right. I am prone to over reading pros and cons as well. My Koga is comfy and I do biggish miles weekly but will do a few fully loaded day trips on various terrain and see what if anything, needs to change.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

As always Hobbes, thoughtful and measured. As I mentioned previously I have a lot to think on and although I know I won't get it perfect first time like you I want to know there is a certain amount of elasticity getting things I will need daily just right. I am prone to over reading pros and cons as well. My Koga is comfy and I do biggish miles weekly but will do a few fully loaded day trips on various terrain and see what if anything, needs to change.

I'm sorry @Oldhippy my recent posts are more philosophical musings rather than on point.

You're very fortunate in that you already have a bike and as you attempt to imagine "the big one" on lots of little ones you can figure out what's important for you.
It might be a slow process, it might seem dull and unexciting, but I think it's the most reliable method.

Personally (more philosophy) I find it easier to live with my own deductions and reasoning rather than someone else's - especially when they turn out to be sub - optimum

It may be just me but I think it's more important to have the ability to accept imperfection rather than the drive (and finances) to have everything perfect.
The perfect bike doesn't exist. The perfect tour doesn't exist. And if they did I don't believe that the perfect bike makes the perfect tour.
My bike is a tool, a multi-purpose tool, a wonderful tool, but, strangely enough, it's only a very small part of my tour. The main parts are the intangibles and there's no shop to buy them in. I picked them up along the way while trying to figure out the best bike for me.

Researching a new bike, especially "the one" should be a fun and rewarding experience - even if you find that "the one" is right under your nose. (I've watched too many RomComs).

Enjoy & good luck!