Juan Kog
permanently grumpy
I’m not sure if you mean a visit to Spa cycles is a pilgrimage or North Yorkshire in general .I think you'll find "pilgrimage" is the correct term.
Does the pilgrimage involve a visit to Betty’s Tea Room.
Genesis Tour de Fer 30.
- Thread starter Oldhippy
- Start date
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Does the pilgrimage involve a visit to Betty’s Tea Room.
Thought your experiences with Spa might be relevant, since they've been mentioned in this thread
T4tomo
Legendary Member
NY in general, and Yes to a Betty's fat rascal.
Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
Well @Oldhippy it looks like my neck's been strapped to the chopping block.
You've not said if the Spa bikes are an option for you so I'll not type a load of waffle for now. If on the other hand you want my thoughts on them (I'm on my 2nd Spa) I'd be happy to write them down. @mickle also has a Wayfarer although he went for the long top tube version. I have the short model.
You've not said if the Spa bikes are an option for you so I'll not type a load of waffle for now. If on the other hand you want my thoughts on them (I'm on my 2nd Spa) I'd be happy to write them down. @mickle also has a Wayfarer although he went for the long top tube version. I have the short model.
OP
OP
Oldhippy
Cynical idealist
Basically I'm thinking bombproof do anything go anywhere. A tourer that does it all and I like the traditional pannier, full mudguard set up. In an ideal world a Rolhoff hub would nice too.
Sorry - wasn't my intention to back you into a corner with demands for information!
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All uphill
Still rolling along
- Location
- Somerset
Thorn would be another option, and they love Rohloff.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
I'd be somewhat concerned by the gearing, assuming tha the OP is the wrong side of 50 and intending to carry a touring load.
Going by the spec in the bikeradar review, the chainset is 50-39-30, and non-square 4-arm too, which makes generic replacement chainrings awkward.
It's quite likely that at some point you'd want lower gearing, the best way of getting which would be to swap the chainset (to 46-36-24 5-arm maybe?). At least it's got a threaded BB shell, to make this relatively straightforward.
Going by the spec in the bikeradar review, the chainset is 50-39-30, and non-square 4-arm too, which makes generic replacement chainrings awkward.
It's quite likely that at some point you'd want lower gearing, the best way of getting which would be to swap the chainset (to 46-36-24 5-arm maybe?). At least it's got a threaded BB shell, to make this relatively straightforward.
OP
OP
Oldhippy
Cynical idealist
I have been cycling all my life as transport so I am used to gearing. I have carried many loads including moving home on a cycle with trailer, twice washing machine included. Fit and not an issue.
ColinJ
Puzzle game procrastinator!
- Location
- Todmorden - Yorks/Lancs border
That's the option taken by @Littgull. He was very pleased with his Thorn/Rohloff.
Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
I think the legendary Surly Disc Trucker (Long Haul Trucker if not wanting disc brakes) is the go to bike for ultimate toughness and round the world reliability. However, as I don't have one I'll just waffle on about about the Spa Wayfarer instead
I'll talk about the frame option as I built mine from scratch. Forks are included along with a headset. Looking around £475 I think.
First off, there are two versions. Short top tube and long top tube. There is I believe about a centimeter or two difference between the two frames.
Your average bike when built with a rear rack is around 14kg.
On the frame and forks are mounts for both disc brakes and cantilever or v brakes. If going for the rim brake option ensure the threaded inserts for the bosses are there. They were missing from mine.
The headset supplied when I bought mine was rubbish as it used needle bearings. Impossible to accurately adjust. Lots of reports on this issue so it wasn't just me. I think different headsets are supplied now but I'd check what type bearings the current ones have just in case.
The cons of this frame...
The rear seatstay bridge has been drilled vertically instead of horizontally for mudguards. Some folk are ok with this. I'm not. Getting the rear mudguard height adjusted correctly needs to be done right first time. Further adjustments mean having to elongate the drill hole in the mudguard which further weakens it. Spacers and all sorts of crap are needed to facilitate the height adjustment. It's a royal pita in my opinion.
The bottle cage mounts on the seat tube are way too high on my frame and I had to use a Topeak bottle cage adapter to be able to fit a standard size bottle under the top tube. I've been told this is an issue with my size frame only. 48cm.
It's very comfy. To the point that I think it isn't nearly stiff enough for a tourer. No matter how I pack the panniers, with front loads the bike suffers from shimmy. The previous Spa Touring had the same problem. I think the problem is with the forks. They seem very...springy.
It's slow. This is no racing bike.
There has been little to no treatment on the inside of the frame or forks against rust. I filled mine with engine oil then drained it. I still find rust stains on my seatpost from time to time despite greasing it.
The pros...
It's damn comfy. I can ride all day on this thing without being battered to a pulp regardless of the terrain and believe me, I've hammered the living daylights out of this bike on trails a gravel bike would tremble at. It's also bombproof.
It's slow. This bike is great for just cruising along at a relaxed pace enjoying the views. Which is what touring is about. However...I've had it going nearly 47mph. Steady as a rock.
Oodles of tyre clearance. I currently have 50mm mudguards fitted and there's still 1 or 2 mm clearance between them and the frame and forks. Spa say it'll take 47mm tyres. You can believe that.
The only mounts missing from the frame and forks are for spare spokes. I carry a flexible fibre something or other spoke instead. @HobbesOnTour carries the same things. Recommended
Basic thoughts.
The Wayfarer is no prince among pigs. It's not elite and won't win you any races.
What you get, if built with decent parts, is a comfy, long distance, bombproof bike that should if looked after, last a lifetime. There's even downtube shifter bosses on it.
Mine is 3 years old and has covered 2500 miles. Not alot really but other than the time I've spent getting my fit sorted out and changing its spec (drops to flats, back to drops, ebike conversion, flats again
) I've had relatively few problems with it.Spa themselves can build the bike to your specification including properly tensioned and stress relieved handbuilt wheels (none of that prebuilt Mavic crap).
From what I hear, the Disc/Long Haul Trucker is the king of tourers. It does come with a hefty premium these days though. The Wayfarer doesn't have it legendary status, but I'd bet my behind there isn't much between the two bikes.
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
It's a FibreFix spoke and yes I recommend. From experience
Since I've been dragged in here are my thoughts......
First of all, the bike you have should be the first option.
What's it missing? Can that be remedied?
What do you really like about it and not want to lose?
(I'm of the opinion that by simply hanging around a forum like this (and the ads we see being influenced by algorithms that intensify everything) that it's almost inevitable that we develop a type of "the grass is greener.... " mentality).
Make a list of what you want before looking.
For example, I'd consider a dynohub to be essential for a touring bike.
I'd also look for the largest practical tyre clearance.
The easiest gear for climbing.
But that's me.
I'd want a bike with components that are as common as possible. No fancy BBs. I like 8 speeds. Stuff that has been tried and tested in the conditions and manner that I plan to use the bike.
I'd also look at the cost of components.
As popular as the Disc Trucker is I have gone right off Surly as a company - and not just because of the huge increases in prices.
If I was to buy a brand new touring bike (and especially a Rohloff) I'd go to SJS/Thorn. Their service was fantastic when I was getting wheels and hubs and other bits and pieces and needed the simplest things explained to me. Their recommendations were spot on. That counts for a lot with me.
One thing I always think is important is that the bike, as a tourer, will quite possibly be used and suffer in a way that a normal bike may not. On trains, buses, trucks. Left out in rain. Maybe not get the cleaning and maintenance it would get at home. And, since it's a tool to get us from place to place it will often be alone. A new, expensive bike might well limit some people's adventures if they're afraid of damaging it or having it stolen.
Personally, if I had a shiny new bike I would find it hard to jump in and do some of the "adjustments" that I have done to my own.
I'm of the opinion that I'd rather spend my money doing something rather than on something. If the buying of a new bike was to limit my touring (budget or apprehension) I'd stick with the old one. If I was convinced that a new bike would expand my touring I'd go for it.
However, I knew a guy in NL who made a nice living selling barely used touring bikes (often Koga World Travellers, custom made) because the people who bought them never went on tour. Whatever was holding them back it wasn't the bike.
I've met more than enough people on bikes that are far removed from what a "Touring bike" should be according to the Internet. Lord knows my own wonderful bike isn't the newest nor the lightest, nor the most suitable but I know it, I trust it, I can fix it (or at least keep it running) and I put it together myself, something I find immensely satisfying.
It also is a very common type of bike so that in a worst case scenario I can pick up another frame and transfer everything over.
I don't spend my time thinking that if I had this component or that material that I could go faster or further. Far easier (and cheaper!) to adjust my mind.
And no matter how "behind the times" it is, it is still far superior to the bikes the folks used in the 60s, 70s and 80s.
A "which bike" thread on a forum like this is always a popular one but only one person has to ride the bike.
Best of luck!
mickle
innit
- Location
- 53.933606, -1.076131
steveindenmark
Legendary Member
I would not change a Koga for a Genesis. I had the Genesis CDF 20 and the Alex Rim wheels were not good. I changed to the Koga World Traveller and it is a RTW all year bike. The one bike I will never sell.
Some great points made on this thread.
I was musing only the other day about how relatively unchanged tourers have typically remained while other bike types have altered enormously. I think most less-mainstream / higher end tourers (and let's face it, the market itself is hardly large or popular) have pretty much stopped "evolving" in many ways regarding certain components. The norm still appears to be bar end shifters, triple chainsets and casettes of fewer than 11 speeds. Many still have rim brakes, although I see more and more discs now.
I think it's fair to say that the Genesis TdF is a somewhat modern take on a tourer, for better or for worse. In a departure from some of the apparant constants above we have a modern and middling Shimano Tiagra 10sp road groupset, the STIs this brings, and mechanical discs.
It's good to see a triple chainset enduring in Shimano's lineup (I beleive Tiagra is the highest-spec you can go and still find a triple now), but as already mentioned by @andrew_s it's arguably not ideal at 50/39/30. FWIW I find the top end rarely used on a road bike, let alone a tourer.. while the Deore setup on my Fuji (48/36/30 with a 9sp 11-34 out back) is certainly far more appropriate for my use as an unacomplished amateur in moderately hilly surroundings.
The crankset will have the same BB as nearly everything else in Shamano's road range. As such if you're using the bike in the UK, parts availability shouldn't be a concern and tbh they're probably just as common over here than the more traditional square taper. Were you planning to ride it around North Africa on the other hand..
I love STIs but there's a decent argument against them being as necessary on a tourer as the are on a road bike (since you're maybe less in need of instant shifts to maintain perfect cadance to maintain the highest speed) and of course they're more complicated / harder to fix / source / replace than bar end shifters.
It's worth remembering that attitudes towards / expectations of road bikes (from where the TdF's groupset has been sourced) and tourers is typically very different. The former likely cosseted and brought out for specific, relatively short recreational rides with a reasonable amount of down time between each outing; the latter more likely to see a harder life of necessity, more miles, longer continuous use, more arduous conditions and maybethe requirement to be repaired under sub-optimal conditions (timing, availability of skills and parts) whilst needing to be in use almost constantly.
While I love my Genesis CdF with its modern hydraulic 105 groupset, thru-axles and flat mount discs (a current and forward-thinking spec I went out of my way to acquire) I'm not so sure I'd be as keen to embrace such modern components on a workhorse.. and indeed my Fuji with its austere 3x9 MTB drivetrain and Microshift bar end shifters has been somewhat of a revelation - old, basic tech that suits its purpose absolutely perfectly.
Another great point touched upon already by @HobbesOnTour is the potential for tartery to get involved. When I bought my Genesis I somewhat naively (for me) bought into it as a do-it-all bike, however in reality, other than a fair few egg runs (where it can be kept within sight and reach at all times) it's seen next to no utility use as I'm too scared of it getting nicked or damaged to leave it locked up.
Likewise, personally I struggle with many new utility items as I hate to see things degrade through use (well, wear I can handle, damage I struggle with) so again for me personally I think buying a brand new high-end tourer would be somewhat self-defeating as I'd struggle to use it for its intended purpose. Indeed, in this regard again the Fuji has really opened my eyes - it gets treated with respect but not nannied as I bought it for a job, while previous owners have done a good job of knocking it about so I feel less horrible if it does pick up the odd additional mark.
I know Koga have a great rep and tbh unless there are specific issues with this bike that are forcing the need to replace it, I'd be inclined to stick with this. I'd certainly resist the urge to blindly embrace a "grass is greener" / "newer is better" mantra, although I think the OP is too savvy for this.
Finally, I hear Thorn being banded about and from my limited findings when researching tourers these seemed to be the gold standard (at least for gear that's within reach of most mere mortals)..
I was musing only the other day about how relatively unchanged tourers have typically remained while other bike types have altered enormously. I think most less-mainstream / higher end tourers (and let's face it, the market itself is hardly large or popular) have pretty much stopped "evolving" in many ways regarding certain components. The norm still appears to be bar end shifters, triple chainsets and casettes of fewer than 11 speeds. Many still have rim brakes, although I see more and more discs now.
I think it's fair to say that the Genesis TdF is a somewhat modern take on a tourer, for better or for worse. In a departure from some of the apparant constants above we have a modern and middling Shimano Tiagra 10sp road groupset, the STIs this brings, and mechanical discs.
It's good to see a triple chainset enduring in Shimano's lineup (I beleive Tiagra is the highest-spec you can go and still find a triple now), but as already mentioned by @andrew_s it's arguably not ideal at 50/39/30. FWIW I find the top end rarely used on a road bike, let alone a tourer.. while the Deore setup on my Fuji (48/36/30 with a 9sp 11-34 out back) is certainly far more appropriate for my use as an unacomplished amateur in moderately hilly surroundings.
The crankset will have the same BB as nearly everything else in Shamano's road range. As such if you're using the bike in the UK, parts availability shouldn't be a concern and tbh they're probably just as common over here than the more traditional square taper. Were you planning to ride it around North Africa on the other hand..
I love STIs but there's a decent argument against them being as necessary on a tourer as the are on a road bike (since you're maybe less in need of instant shifts to maintain perfect cadance to maintain the highest speed) and of course they're more complicated / harder to fix / source / replace than bar end shifters.
It's worth remembering that attitudes towards / expectations of road bikes (from where the TdF's groupset has been sourced) and tourers is typically very different. The former likely cosseted and brought out for specific, relatively short recreational rides with a reasonable amount of down time between each outing; the latter more likely to see a harder life of necessity, more miles, longer continuous use, more arduous conditions and maybethe requirement to be repaired under sub-optimal conditions (timing, availability of skills and parts) whilst needing to be in use almost constantly.
While I love my Genesis CdF with its modern hydraulic 105 groupset, thru-axles and flat mount discs (a current and forward-thinking spec I went out of my way to acquire) I'm not so sure I'd be as keen to embrace such modern components on a workhorse.. and indeed my Fuji with its austere 3x9 MTB drivetrain and Microshift bar end shifters has been somewhat of a revelation - old, basic tech that suits its purpose absolutely perfectly.
Another great point touched upon already by @HobbesOnTour is the potential for tartery to get involved. When I bought my Genesis I somewhat naively (for me) bought into it as a do-it-all bike, however in reality, other than a fair few egg runs (where it can be kept within sight and reach at all times) it's seen next to no utility use as I'm too scared of it getting nicked or damaged to leave it locked up.
Likewise, personally I struggle with many new utility items as I hate to see things degrade through use (well, wear I can handle, damage I struggle with) so again for me personally I think buying a brand new high-end tourer would be somewhat self-defeating as I'd struggle to use it for its intended purpose. Indeed, in this regard again the Fuji has really opened my eyes - it gets treated with respect but not nannied as I bought it for a job, while previous owners have done a good job of knocking it about so I feel less horrible if it does pick up the odd additional mark.
I know Koga have a great rep and tbh unless there are specific issues with this bike that are forcing the need to replace it, I'd be inclined to stick with this. I'd certainly resist the urge to blindly embrace a "grass is greener" / "newer is better" mantra, although I think the OP is too savvy for this.
Finally, I hear Thorn being banded about and from my limited findings when researching tourers these seemed to be the gold standard (at least for gear that's within reach of most mere mortals)..
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