Full Sus vs Hard Tail

[bonj2]

Uh-huh - what is your argument against it? Seeing as all the genuinely experienced riders and racers I know are of this opinion...

Well, don't get me wrong i'm not strongly against it, i can see the point, and I can see the point in hardtails from a 'purist' perspective, but let's just deal with the assertion as it stands: "it simply forces you to take a better line. Hardtails make you a better rider". At the end of the day, that is technically true: however, my reservations are that (a) you can still learn how to take a better line with a FS bike, and ( a FS bike also makes you a better rider.
I know when I've taken a bad line. I don't need to be riding a hardtail to know when I've taken a bad line. The best case scenario for the pro-FS argument is that the FS might be forgiving enough to enable you to recover better to get back on track in time for the next bend/obstacle.
On the other hand, when riding my FS I also get that real good buzz from taking the best line through something. To balance it out, the best case scenario from the pro-HT argument is that that buzz is even better.
HOWEVER, the reason I call it a 'tired old argument' is that it just conjures up a mental image of a hardtail rider weaving deftly through the obstacles and flicking the bike elegantly round, while the FS rider simply blunders down the middle half asleep straight through the middle of all the obstacles without even paying any attention to line, I don't believe for one minute that's the case.
I used to have a hardtail before I got my FS, and occasionally I have my rear shock locked out. It's not that much different - it's still mountain biking, the same skills largely still apply and the same element of fun is still there and is generated in largely the same way. If anything I would say that the difference i notice is that with a FS you can sort of 'steer with your arse' more.

And remind us how long it is you've been riding seriously again as you do.

not that long, couple or three years. I don't pretend to be some sort of riding god or anything, i'm not that great I dont' make any pretence of being the best rider in the world, but that doesn't mean i don't know anything, and i'm also aware that i'm by no means the worst rider in the world either.

 

[Steve Austin]

Ti hardtail is what you need. Its what i been riding for the last ten years and its the only serious choice for XC riding.

30 years of off-road can't be wrong

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Bonj - so basically you agree with me!

No-one has said you can't be agood rider if you only ever ride FS, nor that it isn't more fun, simply that you will become a better rider more quickly, if you learn HT.

Learning is not just about choices, it is about what you are forced to do through bodily experience - riding HT punishes bad line choice (rigid even more so although perhaps too much!), so unless you are either a masochist, very clumsy or an idiot, you have to learn to take a good line.

FS doesn't do that. Of course, it still pays to take a good line riding FS, but unless you are have a really good cycling brain, you will not be made to realise this so quickly through the physical feedback you get from your bike.

 

[Keith Oates]

I'vve never owned a FS so can't really give much comment but I find that the hard tail gets me through most of the stuff I do when out and about. However I don't race it just out having fun or commuting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tim Bennet.]

This reminds me of the 'you must ride fixed or you will not learn to pedal properly' arguments from club riders in my youth. They claimed only by learning to 'ankle' correctly would one ever be able to ride long distances. You never hear of it these days.

Oh, and there was the 'you can train your body to not need food and drink' and 'pushing big gears is the only way to go fast', etc, etc.

In mountaineering, the old farts used to rail against 'the young whipper-snappers' not serving a proper aprenticeship of fell walking and grovelling around on greasy routes in November in Wales as training for the 'major ranges'. But standards have continued to rise year on year, despite 'established truths' being trashed by each successive generation.

And so with the HT / FS debate: I predict we won't see any drop off in skill level when the next generation of mountainbikers start to blaze a trail without the benefit of a hardtail apprenticeship. Just ride what you enjoy and ride it lots. If you want to buy a FS for cross country enduros (and have the resources to do so) then go for it. People like John Houlihan and Steve Heading seem to be quite quick on them.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Analogy is no good as an argument unless the things are actually similar enough - it is about the specifics in each case. We know that pushing a big gear is not a good idea for most people because of the potential for long-term knee damage. And there are certainly both advantages and disadvantages to riding fixed.

And (sigh) no-one is arguing that you shouldn't do what is fun and you enjoy. And the top cyclists will still be the best, however they learn, because of their natural talent and hard work - arguing by reference to extremes doesn't really help us understand what works for most of us.

 

[User482]

My own view is that riding my fully rigid MTB makes me a better rider - I have to choose much better lines (otherwise I fall off) so my anticipation of the trail is improved. That means I can go even faster when I wheel the FS out. Nothing to do with an old fart moaning about newer riders, simply an observation from 15 years' experience of riding and racing.

 

[Capt. Jon]

My own view is that riding my fully rigid MTB makes me a better rider - I have to choose much better lines (otherwise I fall off) so my anticipation of the trail is improved. That means I can go even faster when I wheel the FS out. Nothing to do with an old fart moaning about newer riders, simply an observation from 15 years' experience of riding and racing.

Spot on. Riding all sorts of bikes improves the riding of other bikes. My road bike helps me with fitness and pedaling technique (amongst other things), riding my mtb (HT) xc makes me a stronger rider and works my upper body more, jumping helps with strength, dealing with trail obstacles and maneuverability, bmx similarly. My next bike will be a FS as i'm getting older and want to be able to rider bigger/gnarlier stuff (e.g. Alps), but i have no doubt i'd be a weaker rider if i didn't learn on different bikes.

 

[GaryA]

I have a steel rigid XC MTB and a FS Alu framed one and they both have their charms depending on terrain/mood
in certain types of tight smooth singletrack the rigid does feel more chuckable and precise but on rough descents it feels too front-endy and a bit scary

What would put me off FS is the maintanance and cost of keeping on top of the rear shock and joint wear if its used during the winter or in sandy conditions, as i do