Froome and Wiggins TUEs

[hoopdriver]

He's doing loads of riding in SA at the moment. My view is that he's replicating the training load of the Vuelta and is going to be tested by the UCI very shortly.

That might not be a bad guess. That ride he posted on Sunday - 170 miles averaging almost 28mph would be a pretty phenomenal training ride this early in the season - so far from the Giro, his stated goal. If that’s just a hard training ride, in January, where is he planning on going from there? When it comes time to peak. Doing 200 mile rides at 30mph?

 

[Siclo]

Vegni is not a happy bunny and essentially wants the UCI to certificate Froome's eligibility to race the Giro, giving a guarantee there will be no repeat of the Contador situation. This is going to get messy, there's a small army of lawyers somewhere salivating.

 

[hoopdriver]

Well, by golly, they're still not happy....

 

[lazybloke]

Giro organisers not happy
http://www.velonews.com/2018/02/news/giro-director-leans-uci-guidance-froome-case_456066

Edit, oops just two days after @Siclo posted exactly the same. Duh

It's disappointing that Velonews refer to a "salbutamol scandal", and that some on here are joining the bandwagon to prejudge the appeal process.


What is the time limit for the appeal anyway?
Vegni is absolutely right to want clarity before May; can you imagine the hostility from the crowds if CF races whilst still under suspicion?

To stand any chance of silencing the naysayers CF needs to provide an emphatic proof; a tough ask.

 

[Slick]

It's disappointing that Velonews refer to a "salbutamol scandal", and that some on here are joining the bandwagon to prejudge the appeal process.


What is the time limit for the appeal anyway?
Vegni is absolutely right to want clarity before May; can you imagine the hostility from the crowds if CF races whilst still under suspicion?

To stand any chance of silencing the naysayers CF needs to provide an emphatic proof; a tough ask.

Do you think he will ever silence the naysayers, given all that's gone on? Genuine question, as I'm still a bit of a fan but I'll be bitterly disappointed should he be found guilty.

 

[hoopdriver]

The only way there will be any clarity is if the charges are dropped and Froome cleared. Any other outcome will result in appeals and a long wrangling process which will continue well after the Giro and throw the whole thing into doubt for months. Either Froome is cleared and absolved or whatever, or the race will be run in the shadow of this thing. There isn't any other outcome that I can see.

 

[mjr]

What is the time limit for the appeal anyway?
Vegni is absolutely right to want clarity before May; can you imagine the hostility from the crowds if CF races whilst still under suspicion?

I think past known cases suggest appeals can take up to a year.

Vegni is acting correctly in his own interests but why should CF be punished for UCI's incompetence in keeping this confidential until there's a ruling?

 

[Slick]

The only way there will be any clarity is if the charges are dropped and Froome cleared. Any other outcome will result in appeals and a long wrangling process which will continue well after the Giro and throw the whole thing into doubt for months. Either Froome is cleared and absolved or whatever, or the race will be run in the shadow of this thing. There isn't any other outcome that I can see.

I'm not sure even that will close down the doubters.

 

[Adam4868]

Do you think he will ever silence the naysayers, given all that's gone on? Genuine question, as I'm still a bit of a fan but I'll be bitterly disappointed should he be found guilty.

The damage is done I think, unfortunately it's going to take some sort of extraordinary finding to wriggle (at best) out of it.For me as a massive Froome fan it's a shame,I genuinely don't believe he knowingly went out to cheat the system.Id take more of a guess somebody else fecked up.But I suppose that's because I like him and you never want to see the bad !

 

[Slick]

The damage is done I think, unfortunately it's going to take some sort of extraordinary finding to wriggle (at best) out of it.For me as a massive Froome fan it's a shame,I genuinely don't believe he knowingly went out to cheat the system.Id take more of a guess somebody else fecked up.But I suppose that's because I like him and you never want to see the bad !

That's pretty much how I see it. I just can't see it ending well no matter the findings.

 

[mjr]

@mjr you refer to the incompetence of the UCI in allowing the leak. Do you know for certain it came from the UCI, and that it was caused my incompetence? Not from WADA or some associated body, or even someone within Sky? It probably was the UCI but we don't know do we?

I'm taking the leak itself as the incompetence and regarding the UCI as accountable as the lead body that's also responsible for the sport's relationships with WADA and Sky. If the leak is found to have been from Sky, for example, then I expect UCI to penalise Sky. I really hope the leak hasn't come from WADA as I wouldn't want us to go back to the days of UCI and WADA facing off.

 

[mjr]

I can't see how it can be possible that he'll escape a sanction in the end - pharmacokinetic miracle notwithstanding - [...]

Oh and back to this: I think I've mentioned earlier that I don't think it would be a miracle that a long-term bilharzia sufferer's organs might process salbutamol strangely as the disease can mess them up. Does anyone know if it's ever been studied before? Seems like a rather niche question.

 

[Adam4868]

Oh and back to this: I think I've mentioned earlier that I don't think it would be a miracle that a long-term bilharzia sufferer's organs might process salbutamol strangely as the disease can mess them up. Does anyone know if it's ever been studied before? Seems like a rather niche question.

No,but I'd take a bet that it's being studied now !

 

[lazybloke]

Oh and back to this: I think I've mentioned earlier that I don't think it would be a miracle that a long-term bilharzia sufferer's organs might process salbutamol strangely as the disease can mess them up. Does anyone know if it's ever been studied before? Seems like a rather niche question.

Well bilharzia is associated with damage to liver and kidneys.
I'm not in the medical profession but my daughter went through an episode of renal failure so I have absorbed some knowledge of how the kidneys work. Anyone who's been on a renal ward will have seen urine darker than coca cola, but it's not plausible to suggest CF's kidneys are in that state!

However, it's very plausible that his kidneys are damaged - in the form of scarring to the glomerulus. This would impair kidney function to some degree, but this could only be quantified with a GFR test.
The GFR score is a direct measurement of the effectiveness of the kidneys. The score declines significantly over a lifetime, and also response to environmental conditions including different foods and medications (!). I would imagine the extreme conditions in a pro bike race to cause swings in GFR too, maybe enough to cause an apparent overdose.

 

[hoopdriver]

I can believe all that, but then we still get back to the troubling issue of this one-off extraordinarily high reading - he was using the same kidneys every day, of the Vuelta and every other race. Very odd any way you slice it.

That said, I am certain this is a result of a screw up somewhere rather than a deliberate attempt to cheat. There is simply no logic for it to be anything else.