FPN for carrying child on bike

[Red Light]

I was under the impression that you of all people would not make a decision until you had all the data. You have read between the lines just as others have and reached a different conclusion.

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to come to my conclusions. It takes a lot of ignoring the lines to come to the common view here that it was just a standard saddle duct taped on.

"In this case Murtza had bought the seat from Halfords and attached it to the bike with bolts, before wrapping it in duct tape to make sure it was secure. A Halford’s spokesman confirmed that some of its seats were designed to fit to the crossbar and that instructions were provided.

The spokesman added: “All Halfords child bicycle seats are approved to the European Safety Standard EN14344.”..........

........However the [police] force declined to discuss further why the prosecution took place when the seat complied with European safety standards and was bolted to the crossbar"





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Now if I'd been the police spokesperson under questioning by a national newspaper and it had been just a saddle duct taped on the crossbar I would have answered that question very forcefully with a "no it wasn't. it was just an ordinary saddle he had tied on the cross bar with duct tape" rather than declining to talk about it.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to come to my conclusions. It takes a lot of ignoring the lines to come to the common view here that it was just a standard saddle duct taped on.

"In this case Murtza had bought the seat from Halfords and attached it to the bike with bolts, before wrapping it in duct tape to make sure it was secure. A Halford’s spokesman confirmed that some of its seats were designed to fit to the crossbar and that instructions were provided.

The spokesman added: “All Halfords child bicycle seats are approved to the European Safety Standard EN14344.”..........

........However the [police] force declined to discuss further why the prosecution took place when the seat complied with European safety standards and was bolted to the crossbar"





​

Now if I'd been the police spokesperson under questioning by a national newspaper and it had been just a saddle duct taped on the crossbar I would have answered that question very forcefully with a "no it wasn't. it was just an ordinary saddle he had tied on the cross bar with duct tape" rather than declining to talk about it.

Are you failing to spot the "Some of its seats were designed to fit to the crossbar and that instructions were provided." Also European Safety Standard EN14344 covers three seat types only one of which is designed to fit in the top tube. I ask again "Why the Gaffer tape?"

 

[twobiker]

I bought many moons ago a child seat from a guy at work, it fixed on the back behind my seat and had a fully moulded shape for a child including belts etc, it worked for both my kids,"not at the same time" and was only a tenner, How much do you value your kids life, secondhand seats are not expensive.

 

[StuartG]

Had the guy spent £200 on a solicitor to represent - he might well have got off ... £2000 for a barrister, almost definitely

 

[2Loose]

[QUOTE 1526962"]
Bored now.

This bloke was obviously stopped for a reason.

He was then ticketed for a reason. He had a strop. He pleaded guilty. We're stupid enough to take notice of the inaccurate, biased media. We're stupid enough to override those who know the facts by making up our own despite only having the media words.
[/quote]

+1

 

[MissTillyFlop]

It doesn't take much reading between the lines to come to my conclusions. It takes a lot of ignoring the lines to come to the common view here that it was just a standard saddle duct taped on.

"In this case Murtza had bought the seat from Halfords and attached it to the bike with bolts, before wrapping it in duct tape to make sure it was secure. A Halford’s spokesman confirmed that some of its seats were designed to fit to the crossbar and that instructions were provided.

The spokesman added: “All Halfords child bicycle seats are approved to the European Safety Standard EN14344.”..........

........However the [police] force declined to discuss further why the prosecution took place when the seat complied with European safety standards and was bolted to the crossbar"





​

Now if I'd been the police spokesperson under questioning by a national newspaper and it had been just a saddle duct taped on the crossbar I would have answered that question very forcefully with a "no it wasn't. it was just an ordinary saddle he had tied on the cross bar with duct tape" rather than declining to talk about it.

I think maybe the fact he start screaming and shouting was probably what tipped the balance, who knows whether he would even have got a ticket if he had tried talking calmly (yes, I know the cop just could have been an ars*hole, who fancied writing out some tickets today - both are possibilities.)

From reading the guidelines on children on bicycles, one of the major issues is whether the child is able to sit up and support themselves on the bike if they are not strapped in, so maybe the kid wasn't able to do so?

Who knows.

Whilst the guy may or may not have been breaking any laws, surely the question he should have asked is not "is it legal?" but "is it safe?" because if he skidded/went over a bump/pothole, the child would be on the floor.

 

[twobiker]

Years ago my father used to have a big old steel bike with metal mudguards, we used to sit astride the rear mudguard and he gave us rides along the road, how times have changed.

 

[MissTillyFlop]

Years ago, my cousin Jill took me for a spin on her massive Mercedes motorbike when I was three. My parents went mental and I was in love (with the motorbike, not my cousin!)

I also remember spending most of my time during summer in the buff until I was about 7, but times have changed, for better and for worse.

 

[twobiker]

what was seen then as fun, Conkers, backies on your mates bike from school,etc are all now H&S issues,but if it was all so dangerous the human race would have died out, there should be a difference between fun and, thats illegal/prosecution etc . I miss the old days.

 

[subaqua]

what was seen then as fun, Conkers, backies on your mates bike from school,etc are all now H&S issues,but if it was all so dangerous the human race would have died out, there should be a difference between fun and, thats illegal/prosecution etc . I miss the old days.

no they are not. Backies are illegal playing conkers isn't ( yet, but watch what the tories do )
Conkers have never been banned, the peercieved issue comes from people with not enough training failing to apply the correct procedures to assesing risks .

risk = severity x Liklehood in the conker case using the standard 5x5 grid

Li Liklehood


Ratin 0 = Zero to very low

Rating 1 = Very unlikely

Rating 2 = Unlikely

Rating 3 = Likely

Rating 4 = Very likely

Ratin 5 = Almost certain


Severity


Rating 0 = No injury or illness

Rating 1 = First aid injury or illness

Rating 2 = Minor injury or illness

Rating 3 = “3 day” injury or illness

Rating 4 = Major injury or illness

Rating 5 = Fatality, disabling injury, etc


the risk of an injury in my view ( as a former conker player) would be calculated as follows.

conker in eye Liklehood 2 x severity 1 giving a risk factor of 2 no control measures required.


1-4 means safe to proceed 5-9 means control measures required 10-25 means do not attempt without control measures


had the bloke who assesed the risk assesed the risk of conker particle in the eye then it could be different but that was not what was assesed when you read the full reports not what was posted in the media

 

[Arch]

what was seen then as fun, Conkers, backies on your mates bike from school,etc are all now H&S issues,but if it was all so dangerous the human race would have died out, there should be a difference between fun and, thats illegal/prosecution etc . I miss the old days.

Actually, it's rarely actually a H and S issue. That's a very convenient excuse, often used wrongly. I believe the H and S executive get very fed up about it, because it belittles the important work they do. I think it was only a few weeks back they published their annual list of made up "H and S excuses".

I find myself torn on this question. Because actually, it's probably fine to carry a kid sitting on the crossbar or rack, if you're careful and experienced (both the parent and the kid) - the Dutch manage it fine (and with adults too!). But it is against the law here, unless your bike is properly adapted, and from the pic I get the feeling it isn't (although it is hard to tell on the evidence presented). The fact that the kid is pictured wearing a helmet back to front doesn't inspire confidence in the dad, personally. I suspect there was a lot of attitude involved too.

And I think the backie has been illegal since the rules began, so it's not a case of the good old days v now for that one.

 

[CopperCyclist]

........However the [police] force declined to discuss further why the prosecution took place when the seat complied with European safety standards and was bolted to the crossbar"

Now if I'd been the police spokesperson under questioning by a national newspaper and it had been just a saddle duct taped on the crossbar I would have answered that question very forcefully with a "no it wasn't. it was just an ordinary saddle he had tied on the cross bar with duct tape" rather than declining to talk about it.

Media tend to be directed to send all questions to the Press and PR department. Their stance is usually to make vary little comment. This sometimes annoys us, as if we give out all of the facts our actions are understandable. To know why they choose to give the comments you do you'll have to ask them, or someone that works for them.

 

[twobiker]

A school did say a while back that conkers was'nt allowed, and did'nt they cancel a tournament somewhere because of fears over safety ? also if that seat fitted to his crossbar is illegal it means riding on a mudguard was, but it was still great and I would do it now if my dad was still alive and pay the fine myself, just for the pleasure .

 

[Ian 74]

Seems to me he's no more a F@£kin nutter than you. His seat was bolted to the top tube according to the reports just like yours and was bought from Halfords. He then also duck taped it over the top for whatever reason of his own.

Do you have kids red light? Have you cycled with them on your bike? A seat on the top tube, on its own is not safe and would not pass any safety standard test, if you bothered to read my post you would have noted that I said my childs seat had a back rest, safety belt and a foot rest which is nothing like the gaffa taped creation sported in the article. Also remember just because something is written in the paper doesn't make it so ie, I bought it at Halfords so it must be legal... Having looked on the Halfords Website I can see nothing resembling a seat that secures onto the top tube. He may however have purchased a childs bike seat and then gaffa taped it onto his bike.... Well done you for jumping in with two feet.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Do you have kids red light? Have you cycled with them on your bike? A seat on the top tube, on its own is not safe and would not pass any safety standard test, if you bothered to read my post you would have noted that I said my childs seat had a back rest, safety belt and a foot rest which is nothing like the gaffa taped creation sported in the article. Also remember just because something is written in the paper doesn't make it so ie, I bought it at Halfords so it must be legal... Having looked on the Halfords Website I can see nothing resembling a seat that secures onto the top tube. He may however have purchased a childs bike seat and then gaffa taped it onto his bike.... Well done you for jumping in with two feet.