FPN for carrying child on bike

[Angelfishsolo]

The Daily Wail clearly states the seat was bolted to the frame and the duct tape was extra - "Ghulam Murtza, 26, had bolted a seat to his crossbar and further secured it with duct tape". That is clearly an adaptation, not any old seat held on with duct tape and such seats are commercially available. So what is the offence?



It wasn't "gaffa taped" on, it was bolted on. No legal precedent is set in a magistrates court. I thought you would have known that. And magistrates courts are known for their curious interpretation of the law - vide the similar in many ways case of Daniel Cadden who was ticketed by two police officers for a trumped up offence and found guilty by the magistrate only to have it overturned on appeal. But appealing costs a lot of money if you don't have the support of e.g. the CTC so is beyond the means of most people.

If it was bolted to the frame either P clips or a hole in top tube would be required. The former laughable the latter would weaken the bike considerably. ALso if the bolt held the seat securely why use gaffer tape?

 

[gaz]

If it was bolted to the frame either P clips or a hole in top tube would be required. The former laughable the latter would weaken the bike considerably. ALso if the bolt held the seat securely why use gaffer tape?

Laughable?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Laughable?

Thought it said Lego at first That does not use P clips. That is a good idea.

 

[gaz]

Thought it said Lego at first That does not use P clips. That is a good idea.

A p clip is essentially the same principle.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

A p clip is essentially the same principle.

OK accepted but I would vouch that that design is far stronger than a P clip bodge. It also looked as though it had a harness on it.

 

[Dave W]

He either pleaded or was found guilty, any further speculation about the offence being made out or not is therefore pointless and a waste of server capacity.

Naturally if a police officer had let him ride past with the child on the bike and an accident had ensued the Daily Hate Mail would blame the police. See a pattern?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

He either pleaded or was found guilty, any further speculation about the offence being made out or not is therefore pointless and a waste of server capacity.

Naturally if a police officer had let him ride past with the child on the bike and an accident had ensued the Daily Hate Mail would blame the police. See a pattern?

Agreed.

 

[Red Light]

He either pleaded or was found guilty, any further speculation about the offence being made out or not is therefore pointless and a waste of server capacity.

So you think Daniel Cadden was guilty for not using a cycle lane? He was found guilty by a magistrate that didn't think cyclists should be on the road at all. It took a lot of money provided by the CTC's Cyclist Defence Fund to get his decision overturned.

In fact if we took your approach most of the major miscarriages of justice would never have been revealed.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So you think Daniel Cadden was guilty for not using a cycle lane? He was found guilty by a magistrate that didn't think cyclists should be on the road at all. It took a lot of money provided by the CTC's Cyclist Defence Fund to get his decision overturned.

In fact if we took your approach most of the major miscarriages of justice would never have been revealed.

Bottom line. From what you can see in the photo (including the fact that the child has the helmet on back to front) do you believe that the "home made" solution was safe?

 

[subaqua]

But the Road Traffic Act doesn't specify any standards to be met and the standard you quote is only for legally selling a child seat. There is no restriction on a home made one for personal use AFAIK.

the guy must at some point have bought the seat.

 

[Dave W]

So you think Daniel Cadden was guilty for not using a cycle lane? He was found guilty by a magistrate that didn't think cyclists should be on the road at all. It took a lot of money provided by the CTC's Cyclist Defence Fund to get his decision overturned.

In fact if we took your approach most of the major miscarriages of justice would never have been revealed.

So based on one case you can recall being wrong they are all wrong and open to being questioned?

You don't believe the offence was made out having read just what the hate mail wants you to read, where as the magistrates would have had the full story and most likely the actual bike itself.

I'd personally much rather put my faith in those that had all the facts and thought it was proven beyond reasonable doubt than someone's musings on an internet forum after reading a snippet from a well known police hating rag.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

the guy must at some point have bought the seat.

The seat would have been sold for a given purpose however. I doubt that purpose was to be bolted and gaffer taped to a top tube.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So based on one case you can recall being wrong they are all wrong and open to being questioned?

You don't believe the offence was made out having read just what the hate mail wants you to read, where as the magistrates would have had the full story and most likely the actual bike itself.

I'd personally much rather put my faith in those that had all the facts and thought it was proven beyond reasonable doubt than someone's musings on an internet forum after reading a snippet from a well known police hating rag.

 

[srw]

Clearly guilty of carrying a child unsafely - he bought the seat from Halfords.

More seriously, both of those other articles point out that "he felt he had no choice" but to plead guilty - which suggests there's something we're not being told.

Incidentally, the start of the original Wail article, retrieved from google is entertaining:

The 'backie' - a ride on the back of someone's push bike - has been a part of cycling ever since man took to two wheels. It was, therefore, with some surprise to a biking father that he ended up in court and faced with a ...

It's Elf-n-safety-gorn-mad.

 

[srw]

The seat would have been sold for a given purpose however. I doubt that purpose was to be bolted and gaffer taped to a top tube.

Ahem. Follow the links in my post above.