Fitting QR skewer to wheel with horizontal dropouts

[HovR]

- for example:

We used quick releases with these, no problem.

And I continue to use QR's on those with no problem. Although as McWobble said, they are the type with internal cams.

 

[screenman]

That is not a horizontal drop out, close but no cigar as they say. Horizontal is as they say horizontal.

 

[youngoldbloke]

That is not a horizontal drop out, close but no cigar as they say. Horizontal is as they say horizontal.

OK - not absolutely horizontal, but horizontal when compared to vertical dropouts, and I would contend that the term is commonly used to describe the kind of forward facing dropouts shown. Are you suggesting that the only true horizontal dropouts are rear facing track ends? If so, fair enough - I must say I was confused by the depiction of the tagalong on the webpage, and took the OP's description of 'horizontal' dropouts to refer to the ones shown, and was therefore trying to answer the query in respect of those .........
(edit) I think Wikipedia sums it up quite well. Perhaps I should have said semi-horizontal dropouts, and perhaps truly horizontal ones are not drop outs at all, but more correctly described as track fork ends?

 

[screenman]

If you draw a horizontal line through those drop outs you will see that the axle will be pushing against solid metal when under pressure, for example pedaling.

Now is that a semi-horizontal or a semi-vertical? bit like glass half empty. Thinking about it you cannot have half semi of either of them really or can you?

Do not believe all you read on Wiki, there are many things on there not correct.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Screenman - did you read the Wikipedia entry? What do you call forward facing sloping dropouts? What are horizontal dropouts? (picture please). Please enlighten me.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Is Sheldon Brown incorrect too?

 

[screenman]

Horizontal = track ends.
The other one = rear drop outs.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Horizontal = track ends.
The other one = rear drop outs.

So SB is incorrect? And Machinehead Software? Oh, and Vertical dropouts aren't really vertical either are they? These labels are just a useful way of identifying the various designs. Aren't they?

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I would slime the innertube instead and carry a pump

 

[screenman]

Word English Dictionary.
measured or contained in a plane parallel to that of the horizon.


Maybe it is a bit like a roll, or a cob, or a breadcake.

 

[Hawk]

If you draw a horizontal line through those drop outs you will see that the axle will be pushing against solid metal when under pressure, for example pedaling.

I can push a block horizontally and still make it go up an inclined plane.

The forces exerted on an axle would be the sum of the forces exerted on the wheel, this includes forces due to acceleration, braking, going over bumps and potholes (which causes the spokes to deform elastically as they roll), this suggests there are all sorts of vibrational dynamics I imagine too.

Considering there were reported cases of accidents with disc brakes managing to pull a wheel out of a perfectly vertical dropout, it is obvious that QR skewers cannot be relied upon to cope with all forces on a wheel without the wheel coming out.

They are worlds apart. The axle/nut combination should be tightened to about 20nM of torque according to Parktools. This would correspond to about 1,000 kg of tension based on my approximations. This is enough to hold your wheel safely in all conditions.

If I was to put ALL my weight on my 5cm quick release skewer (literally, if I stood on top of it), then in the 'best' simplified model I can think of, I'd be able to get maybe 500kg of tension. I'm actually using my finger to tighten it, so we're looking more at the region of 50kg of tension.

Whilst QRs and and nuts appear to do a similar job they are actually totally different; the QR just stops the wheel falling out )basically of its own weight) while all other forces go straight to the axle, whereas a nut/axle actually has to transfer a lot of forces between the wheel and frame.

 

[screenman]

My point was the semi-horizontal dropouts somebody talked about earlier were not the same nor worked the same as what we now talk about as track ends.

 

[youngoldbloke]

If I am the 'somebody' referred to I never said they were. I referred to 'forward facing horizontal dropouts' - a term used and generally accepted to be the way most of us refer to the dropouts commonly used pre c1990 on road bike frames equipped with derailleur gears, and as shown in the illustration of Campagnolo drop outs.

 

[fossyant]

- for example:

We used quick releases with these, no problem.

I still do. Never have any problems

 

[HovR]

My point was the semi-horizontal dropouts somebody talked about earlier were not the same nor worked the same as what we now talk about as track ends.

Does it really matter if they are exactly horizontal? The point is that they aren't vertical, and if the wheel wasn't secured properly it could move on the horizontal plane - Same as a wheel that wasn't properly secured in track-ends.

All youngoldbloke was trying to show was that wheels can be, and have been secured in non-vertical dropouts (for many years) with quick releases.

Stop getting so hung up on the exact terminology!