First loaded test run on my Genesis.

[Oldhippy]

@StuAff what is an 'expert' tourer? Is Dew more expert than Hobbes or Retyred? There are no rules, it isn't a race! I don't wear hi viz or a helmet either! Does that not make me a cyclist either?

 

[I like Skol]

loaded run this evening, 10 miles on road, off road, couple of steep hills and a couple of long downhills. ...... Averaged 13 miles an hour

13 mph on the flat is perfectly possible

Which was it, 13mph AVE over varied terrain or 13mph for a while along a flat bit? They are not the same.

I don't give a fig about what you take, how fast you ride or how much you struggle to haul your 60kg bike around the countryside, but suggesting that 13mph average speed is realistic or attainable when doing mixed terrain touring with such a load is possibly giving fellow tourers impossible expectations that will leave them failing to reach camping spots, missing meals or failing to catch boats/trains etc.

I'll leave you to it, not looking to pick an argument or spoil your 'journey' but people read comments like yours and plan trips around the info they glean so let's get it right?

 

[StuAff]

@StuAff what is an 'expert' tourer? Is Dew more expert than Hobbes or Retyred? There are no rules, it isn't a race! I don't wear hi viz or a helmet either! Does that not make me a cyclist either?

He rode to the North Cape and back. He wasn't wearing hi-viz or a helmet either. But my point is you don't need to have packed the kitchen sink, literally or metaphorically.

 

[rualexander]

I just take everything and more. It's built to travel and I like to be comfy and as self sufficient as possible for as long as possible.
That does include the bike, 3 days food, 4 days clothes, light weight two man tent I can the bike in one half.

Fair enough, but assuming your bike weighs 15-20kg I still can't see how you can be carrying 40kg of luggage unless you're carrying getting on for 15 litres of water.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

It does feel different but well balanced all round. I did stop for dinner at a country pub as it was a nice evening. People did look at me in a different way, all smiled for a change.

Yes, I found that even in a densely packed place like NL, the reaction to a guy on a loaded bike was very friendly. It was far easier for me, being Irish and naturally hapless, to play the hapless foreigner. Believe it or not, it started to change my perception of the place after living there for so long.

You'll probably want to try some rough stuff under your wheels at some stage, for the experience and I was amazed at how quickly the "loaded" feel became normal so that unloaded the bike felt very, very different. i think that's especially the case fo those of us who have one bike for everything.

60kg seems most excessive for a touring load. I've ridden with a strong, expert tourer whose bike weighed 40 or 50kg, and he was covering a lot more miles than you will…

He rode to the North Cape and back. He wasn't wearing hi-viz or a helmet either. But my point is you don't need to have packed the kitchen sink, literally or metaphorically.

Like @Oldhippy , I'm a bit bemused as to what an "expert" tourer is.
I think they've been around long enough to know if they want to pack a kitchen sink, or not. And, meaning no harm, have a sneaky suspicion that they'd quite like the idea of being a not-expert. Not inexpert. A non-expert.

but suggesting that 13mph average speed is realistic or attainable when doing mixed terrain touring with such a load is possibly giving fellow tourers impossible expectations

Oh please! There is no suggestion that such a speed is attainable. The OP is talking about a 10 mile ride. Their first ride, loaded.

that will leave them failing to reach camping spots, missing meals or failing to catch boats/trains etc.

Oh please! Again! Anyone who heads off on a tour based on a few lines and a photo describing a 10 mile shakedown ride is likely to have a whole lot more problems than failing to make a campsite.

not looking to pick an argument

With respect, If that the case, I suggest re-reading your contributions, paying special attention to the tone.
I found these to be argumentative:

At only 60 kilos you will barely be able to pedal a 60 kilo bike. I suggest you try to bulk up a bit and shave some of the weight off the bike/kit. You really need to rethink your strategy and come up with a combo that is more practical.

I question those numbers. I'm sure there is no intention to deceive, but something just doesn't stack up numerically.

Which was it, 13mph AVE over varied terrain or 13mph for a while along a flat bit? They are not the same.

Can I also ask you at this stage, given your concern for the reckless posting style of the OP, just what effect such postings might have on novice bike adventurers wandering in to the forum?

Fair enough, but assuming your bike weighs 15-20kg I still can't see how you can be carrying 40kg of luggage unless you're carrying getting on for 15 litres of water.

You'd be surprised how weight accumulates.
Not everyone goes for ultralight, modern gear. It hasn't been unusual for me to haul a 5kg + tent.
That ultralight tent which is fine for a day or two will possibly need a variety of pegs and certainly extra ground protection on a longer tour.
A two day trip? pack the exact amount of coffee, oil etc. needed. A longer trip? We'll be buying full-size packs in the stores. Price conscious? The bigger packs are invariably cheaper.
Some of us wear "normal" clothes and like something fresh and dry at the end of the day.
Water? 3 liters is my normal load. Topped up en route. The most I've carried was about 10/12, I think.
A gas stove is fast and light, Trangia heavier (esp. in terms of fuel). Some of us like the dependability of a Trangia, no matter what.

My loaded weight would be about 40kg on average. On a bike that's 25kg, naked.
I pack for comfort. On a typical day, I'm off the bike longer than I'm on it.


**********************************************


It's not often that I get angry reading CC, and especially this Touring forum, but I was peeved last night when I saw some of the responses and I was downright mad when I caught up today.

Someone has posted their first loaded, shakedown ride and too many responses have been far too negative. Of all the areas of cycling I find it hard to believe that there is one that is more subjective than "Touring". Even the word itself means so many so different things to many different people.

In my experience, the thing that holds people back from having adventures on their bikes is weight, alright. But the weight between their ears and metaphorically pressing down on their shoulders. Once out there, things have a way of seeming to be different than we thought sitting at home, reading, watching or listening to the "experts".

No, we shouldn't be feckless cheerleaders, but we should also consider the tone of what we write and the fact that it will stay here for a very long time.

I thank the Touring Gods on days like this that I was blissfully ignorant of cycling fora when I ventured off on my first adventures. On my first, self supported tour, half my panniers were filled with books, one a dense, hardback copy of Grimm's Fairy Tales. The "experts" would have said no way!! Yet sitting in a German forest (off my meticulously planned route, I should add), reading, the stories coming to life around me was a huge factor in me deciding to go on another adventure. (I got a kindle for that one - I'm not that dumb! and one of the great joys of travelling by bike, for me, is to read of a place as I pass through it).
I am also thankful that my immediate circle were mostly positive. I could be the poster boy for what a bike tourist should not be. Overweight, a smoker, language challenged with absolutely no sense of direction. A lazy fecker to boot. And someone who really, really enjoyed their home comforts. It would have been so easy for my balloon to have been punctured.

Nobody starts off perfect. In fact, many never start off at all because of a lack of perfection. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP gradually changes their packing list as time goes on.

I read a wonderful thing recently, something like experience and fear inhabiting the same space in our heads. No experience? Then there's lots of fear. As the experience builds up, fear shrinks. It's a wonderful image.
@Oldhippy is accumulating his experience. That's something to be applauded, in my book.

 

[Oldhippy]

I like it, it doesn't bother me and there are no rules. Simple. I didn't meticulously weigh anything but shunting stuff around all day I am aufait with approximate weights. Why does it matter! Plus minus 5kg here or there matters not!

 

[Oldhippy]

It is only my first tour on this bike. My first purpose bought tourer everything else I've built up. Been riding since I was 5, and do around a 100 miles a week as my bike is transport. Not even sure why I feel the urge to explain. As said just put a photo and few words how great a proper tourer is.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Not even sure why I feel the urge to explain

Well, I for one, appreciate it.
I recall your "what bike" thread and I've been looking forward to reading about how it is going.
Far too many people come on here, ask questions, then disappear. It's great to have a bit of continuity. To see what happened next.

I'll look forward to the Rebellion Way Travelogue

 

[StuAff]

'Expert'. One word. Would you have argued with 'experienced'- which, with hindsight, I would have used? Yes, probably. But the point stands. The OP only has to justify all that weight he's lugging about to himself. But if others wonder why he's doing it, that's perfectly fair as well.

 

[Oldhippy]

Because I'm anally retentive and take everything I think I might need including at least one hardcover book. I've carried an inner tube around for years, never needed it, but one day I might. I have no one to keep up with, no rush or rush, wild camp so no pressure there or happen upon a camp sight and stay. I literally have a destination in mind and go roughly in that direction. Because I can mainly. Life is too short to plan every detail.

 

[All uphill]

I'm also glad you choose to share your ideas and photos.

You absolutely do not need to explain or justify the way you do things - but you already know that.

 

[I like Skol]

Yes, I found that even in a densely packed place like NL, the reaction to a guy on a loaded bike was very friendly. It was far easier for me, being Irish and naturally hapless, to play the hapless foreigner. Believe it or not, it started to change my perception of the place after living there for so long.

You'll probably want to try some rough stuff under your wheels at some stage, for the experience and I was amazed at how quickly the "loaded" feel became normal so that unloaded the bike felt very, very different. i think that's especially the case fo those of us who have one bike for everything.





Like @Oldhippy , I'm a bit bemused as to what an "expert" tourer is.
I think they've been around long enough to know if they want to pack a kitchen sink, or not. And, meaning no harm, have a sneaky suspicion that they'd quite like the idea of being a not-expert. Not inexpert. A non-expert.



Oh please! There is no suggestion that such a speed is attainable. The OP is talking about a 10 mile ride. Their first ride, loaded.


Oh please! Again! Anyone who heads off on a tour based on a few lines and a photo describing a 10 mile shakedown ride is likely to have a whole lot more problems than failing to make a campsite.


With respect, If that the case, I suggest re-reading your contributions, paying special attention to the tone.
I found these to be argumentative:





Can I also ask you at this stage, given your concern for the reckless posting style of the OP, just what effect such postings might have on novice bike adventurers wandering in to the forum?


You'd be surprised how weight accumulates.
Not everyone goes for ultralight, modern gear. It hasn't been unusual for me to haul a 5kg + tent.
That ultralight tent which is fine for a day or two will possibly need a variety of pegs and certainly extra ground protection on a longer tour.
A two day trip? pack the exact amount of coffee, oil etc. needed. A longer trip? We'll be buying full-size packs in the stores. Price conscious? The bigger packs are invariably cheaper.
Some of us wear "normal" clothes and like something fresh and dry at the end of the day.
Water? 3 liters is my normal load. Topped up en route. The most I've carried was about 10/12, I think.
A gas stove is fast and light, Trangia heavier (esp. in terms of fuel). Some of us like the dependability of a Trangia, no matter what.

My loaded weight would be about 40kg on average. On a bike that's 25kg, naked.
I pack for comfort. On a typical day, I'm off the bike longer than I'm on it.


**********************************************


It's not often that I get angry reading CC, and especially this Touring forum, but I was peeved last night when I saw some of the responses and I was downright mad when I caught up today.

Someone has posted their first loaded, shakedown ride and too many responses have been far too negative. Of all the areas of cycling I find it hard to believe that there is one that is more subjective than "Touring". Even the word itself means so many so different things to many different people.

In my experience, the thing that holds people back from having adventures on their bikes is weight, alright. But the weight between their ears and metaphorically pressing down on their shoulders. Once out there, things have a way of seeming to be different than we thought sitting at home, reading, watching or listening to the "experts".

No, we shouldn't be feckless cheerleaders, but we should also consider the tone of what we write and the fact that it will stay here for a very long time.

I thank the Touring Gods on days like this that I was blissfully ignorant of cycling fora when I ventured off on my first adventures. On my first, self supported tour, half my panniers were filled with books, one a dense, hardback copy of Grimm's Fairy Tales. The "experts" would have said no way!! Yet sitting in a German forest (off my meticulously planned route, I should add), reading, the stories coming to life around me was a huge factor in me deciding to go on another adventure. (I got a kindle for that one - I'm not that dumb! and one of the great joys of travelling by bike, for me, is to read of a place as I pass through it).
I am also thankful that my immediate circle were mostly positive. I could be the poster boy for what a bike tourist should not be. Overweight, a smoker, language challenged with absolutely no sense of direction. A lazy fecker to boot. And someone who really, really enjoyed their home comforts. It would have been so easy for my balloon to have been punctured.

Nobody starts off perfect. In fact, many never start off at all because of a lack of perfection. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP gradually changes their packing list as time goes on.

I read a wonderful thing recently, something like experience and fear inhabiting the same space in our heads. No experience? Then there's lots of fear. As the experience builds up, fear shrinks. It's a wonderful image.
@Oldhippy is accumulating his experience. That's something to be applauded, in my book.

Wow..... just Wow?

 

[HobbesOnTour]

'Expert'. One word. Would you have argued with 'experienced'- which, with hindsight, I would have used? Yes, probably. But the point stands. The OP only has to justify all that weight he's lugging about to himself. But if others wonder why he's doing it, that's perfectly fair as well.

It's not clear who you are replying to but here's my 2 cents anyways.

I would argue with "experienced". And for pretty sound reasons too. Bike touring as a description is so broad, so wide ranging, that it can be next to impossible to draw lessons from one other person's experience.
I once bought a tent, my decision heavily influenced by chatting to someone who was selling one. They described it to me as the "perfect" tent for bike touring. Having bought one and really struggling to pitch it properly I contacted the guy again and asked for some advice. He had the same problem, but it was minimal for him since they tended to do hub and spoke touring, leaving the tent in one place for days at a time. My move-every-day style was quite diferent.
Another example: I once met a guy on his way to NoordKaap - for the second time. The first time he ignored a festering saddle sore until he awoke one day in a Scandinavian hospital. A completely different kind of bike setup and touring style to me, but something worth remembering.

I'm not dismissing the value of experience at all. But it does need to be put in a useful context. And evaluated independently. Dervla Murphy wrote of the wonders of Afghanistan for visiting on a bike. I'm not about to pack up and head over there!

Of course other posters can question an OP. And each other. This is a discussion forum. However, (and your posts, to be fair, aren't the worst examples) I think the tone leaves a lot to be desired in terms of encouraging discussion, never mind encouraging the OP.

60kg seems most excessive for a touring load. I've ridden with a strong, expert tourer whose bike weighed 40 or 50kg, and he was covering a lot more miles than you will…

How do you know how many miles the OP will cover?

But my point is you don't need to have packed the kitchen sink, literally or metaphorically.

It might just be my contrary nature but I find someone telling me what I need or don't need to be provocative. I need a passport to cross a border. Getting there early is good advice.

I have no doubt that the intention is well meant but I well recall the very real, very deep anxiety and fear of the first day of my first ever bike tour (a 40 km ride along a river with my gear being transported by van ). Negativity would not have helped. Comparisons to experts would have been counterproductive.

I guess what I'm expressing is a desire for a bit more kindness. I think that's especially appropriate on the "Touring & Adventure Cycling" forum. The many, many kindnesses received are some of the great rewards of an adventure on a bike.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

Wow..... just Wow?

Well, it's hard to argue with that.

 

[rualexander]

You'd be surprised how weight accumulates.
Not everyone goes for ultralight, modern gear. It hasn't been unusual for me to haul a 5kg + tent.
That ultralight tent which is fine for a day or two will possibly need a variety of pegs and certainly extra ground protection on a longer tour.
A two day trip? pack the exact amount of coffee, oil etc. needed. A longer trip? We'll be buying full-size packs in the stores. Price conscious? The bigger packs are invariably cheaper.
Some of us wear "normal" clothes and like something fresh and dry at the end of the day.
Water? 3 liters is my normal load. Topped up en route. The most I've carried was about 10/12, I think.
A gas stove is fast and light, Trangia heavier (esp. in terms of fuel). Some of us like the dependability of a Trangia, no matter what.

My loaded weight would be about 40kg on average. On a bike that's 25kg, naked.
I pack for comfort. On a typical day, I'm off the bike longer than I'm on it.

I wouldn't be surprised how weight accumulates at all.
But I would be, and was, surprised when the OP said he was carrying 55-60kg including bike.
I have nothing against him doing so if that is what he wants.

When I was cycling across the Australian outback 30 years ago, I was carrying several days food and 12 litres of water, on a 16kg bike, along with camping gear (not ultralight), petrol stove and fuel, clothing for a whole year, three books, etc, etc.

It still didn't weigh as much as 55-60kg