First 4 hours with my new Garmin GPSmap 60Csx GPS unit and City europe mapping
- Thread starter Bigtallfatbloke
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Bigtallfatbloke
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Th elast route I took into the GPS had just 4 waypints in it & th eone before that just 2 and it still showed a Track truncated message on upload.
I have looked at that gps bable but I jus tcant ge tmy head around it, and I cannot get the mapsource to reduce waypoints because ther eis no option I can find at all to do so. Like I already said I am not working on a map imported into mapsource I can only see the poor detail of the base map.
I have spent three solid days and mos tthe night on this and right now I have to say I am pretty peeved with Garmin. Sorry , but this thing is just not user fiendly at all, really, if there is anybody out there considering getting this gizmo then my advice is simple...save your shekkles...there wont be emough days of your life left to waste on this hi teck box of false promises.
I have looked at that gps bable but I jus tcant ge tmy head around it, and I cannot get the mapsource to reduce waypoints because ther eis no option I can find at all to do so. Like I already said I am not working on a map imported into mapsource I can only see the poor detail of the base map.
I have spent three solid days and mos tthe night on this and right now I have to say I am pretty peeved with Garmin. Sorry , but this thing is just not user fiendly at all, really, if there is anybody out there considering getting this gizmo then my advice is simple...save your shekkles...there wont be emough days of your life left to waste on this hi teck box of false promises.
MockCyclist
Well-Known Member
Bigtallfatbloke said:
It was probably a track and had more than 500 points even though it might have had only 4 user, visible, waypoints. I have no other explanation for it.
To downsample a track, you double-click its title under Tracks in MapSource. Select Filter, set Maximum Points to 250.
I think you've got to have a log-in for BikeRouteToaster to search other public files.
Ref the errors you are getting, the penny dropped for me when I realised your gps is finding a way to get you to the start of your route.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
That can only happen when you get to Friedrichshafen town centre with your gps.
Bigtallfatbloke said:
I've covered this. Auto-Routing gives you zillions of points and follows a road that you might not want to take. You can down-sample it in MapSource if you want but why not just use your gps to do this when you get to Basel ?
Bigtallfatbloke said:
I've covered this. You can't do Auto-Routing in MapSource because you don't have a routable map, City Navigator, installed in MapSource.
If that screenshot is of a b r toaster route you picked Start and Finish but had Auto Routing turned OFF.
You would get exactly the same result using your gps, if you asked it to navigate a route between Basel and F??? with Off Road selected ... it assumes you can find a direct route between the two points.
You'll get the same result in MapSource if you just click 2 points for a route - a straight line.
The answers you got from Garmin, are the ones I would give if I'd been asked how to make the gps operate like a tom tom. The question is, do you want to have any input to your route preparation for your tour or are you content to accept your gps' or bikeroutetoasters route?
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Bigtallfatbloke
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..erm...like I have been trying all along I want to be able to plot my own detailed rides on a street by street basis and then have the GPS play that ride back to me as I ride along it keeping my little black arrow on the 'guide line' as I go.
I have no problem getting this thing to select it's own routes for me, but that is not what i want from it for the most part.
TOM TOM are far easier to work imho, they have a touch screen interface and even my wife can work it within minutes of opening the box. The only thing it doesnt have is battery life...but as I am discovering niethe rdoes this GPS...it is still eating up batteries at an unbelieveable and unacceptable rate....in fact I would say that it's probably no better than my wifes tom tom on battery use.
I will persevere with this..but frankly I'd rather have my money and the last three days of my life back.
I will try to find that waypoint limiter...
Thanks.
I have no problem getting this thing to select it's own routes for me, but that is not what i want from it for the most part.
TOM TOM are far easier to work imho, they have a touch screen interface and even my wife can work it within minutes of opening the box. The only thing it doesnt have is battery life...but as I am discovering niethe rdoes this GPS...it is still eating up batteries at an unbelieveable and unacceptable rate....in fact I would say that it's probably no better than my wifes tom tom on battery use.
I will persevere with this..but frankly I'd rather have my money and the last three days of my life back.
I will try to find that waypoint limiter...
Thanks.
MockCyclist
Well-Known Member
Bigtallfatbloke said:
Well, it will do that, and you're not so far away. But don't get bogged down with Auto-Routing and Follow Road.
MockCyclist said:
This will do it. Possibly using tracks is another approach. Ok, so the gpsbabel isn't so user-friendly but the options that you pick are sticky once you set them (I think).
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Bigtallfatbloke
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..erm...hold on...(quickly grabs large wooden object).....it looks like...erm...yes...(puts on glasses for closer inspection)....that after running the waypont limiter in mapsource....that I have three routes (different titles) from Fredharbour to Basil in the gPS...all with a full track line and route line.....yes they are definatly in there...
...so assuming that the balck arrow will arrive at the staret point when I get over there like you said I should (crosses fingers and adopts praying position) by able to play back the routes as I ride them whilst looking at the direction line under the highway option right?
PLeeeeeeeeeeese say that's correct
If it is then all I need to do now is plot all the rides in one by one (I see saome late nights coming my way before Friday!)
...so assuming that the balck arrow will arrive at the staret point when I get over there like you said I should (crosses fingers and adopts praying position) by able to play back the routes as I ride them whilst looking at the direction line under the highway option right?
PLeeeeeeeeeeese say that's correct
If it is then all I need to do now is plot all the rides in one by one (I see saome late nights coming my way before Friday!)
MockCyclist
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you have a route or a track. You can only use the Highway page with a route.
I guess you have a track with less than 250 points. This screenshot shows how I convert my tracks to routes.
In MapSource, save your track as a gpx file. In fact it's the gpx file that you get from b r toaster, it's a track file. In gpsbabel, that's the input file. I create a second file by changing the filename slightly on the Output side.
Click the Filter button to bring up the window to transform a track to a route.
You should end up with a gpx file which you can open straight back in MapSource and it should appear on the Routes tab.
This is the route that you transfer.
You are going to do a test run with a local route, aren't you? It took me a lot more than a week to perfect (?) all this.
Tip: Give each route a numeric prefix so that they appear in the Route list on your gps in the order that you will be riding them. in MapSource, double-click the route name, something like RPT001 to RPT229, and call it 00) Basel
I guess you have a track with less than 250 points. This screenshot shows how I convert my tracks to routes.
In MapSource, save your track as a gpx file. In fact it's the gpx file that you get from b r toaster, it's a track file. In gpsbabel, that's the input file. I create a second file by changing the filename slightly on the Output side.
Click the Filter button to bring up the window to transform a track to a route.
You should end up with a gpx file which you can open straight back in MapSource and it should appear on the Routes tab.
This is the route that you transfer.
You are going to do a test run with a local route, aren't you? It took me a lot more than a week to perfect (?) all this.
Tip: Give each route a numeric prefix so that they appear in the Route list on your gps in the order that you will be riding them. in MapSource, double-click the route name, something like RPT001 to RPT229, and call it 00) Basel
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Bigtallfatbloke
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Ok thanks..
I think I have routes listed in the gPS, n fact they are routes because they are listed under 'routes' right? I see the black dotted track line as well as the pink route line when I call up the route map. I converted the track to a route in mapsource by clicking the routing tool on the start and at various points along the loop ride (a bit like the old dot to dot pictures i had as a kid!)...so the file I saved was a route file. However your method sounds quicker as it appears it will simply convert the entire track line into a route line in one or two clicks right?
It wa sby using the filter in mapsource that managed to upload several day long ride routes into the GPS without memory issues or track truncated messages.
For thoise watching this thread on the sideline:
..well one of them anyway.
Ok , I am going to try to convert the next BRT track into a route as per your suggestion and see how I get on.
Am i going to do a test ride with the GPS...yep...thats the plan...I will ride my normal loop but follow the route in the gPS...then I will pick somewhere at randon and have it guide me there, then I will try to pick up the route I was riding from where i left off or a new point further along say (after a detour) and then get home. Hopefully all will work.
If I can do all that in the highway option I will happier.
I think I have routes listed in the gPS, n fact they are routes because they are listed under 'routes' right? I see the black dotted track line as well as the pink route line when I call up the route map. I converted the track to a route in mapsource by clicking the routing tool on the start and at various points along the loop ride (a bit like the old dot to dot pictures i had as a kid!)...so the file I saved was a route file. However your method sounds quicker as it appears it will simply convert the entire track line into a route line in one or two clicks right?
It wa sby using the filter in mapsource that managed to upload several day long ride routes into the GPS without memory issues or track truncated messages.
For thoise watching this thread on the sideline:
..well one of them anyway.
Ok , I am going to try to convert the next BRT track into a route as per your suggestion and see how I get on.
Am i going to do a test ride with the GPS...yep...thats the plan...I will ride my normal loop but follow the route in the gPS...then I will pick somewhere at randon and have it guide me there, then I will try to pick up the route I was riding from where i left off or a new point further along say (after a detour) and then get home. Hopefully all will work.
If I can do all that in the highway option I will happier.
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Bigtallfatbloke
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..I have managed to get gps bable to open and have set it just as in your screen shot. I got a success message saying I had converted gpx to gpx. I then opened this gpx file in mapsource expecting it to me a route, but it wasnt, it was still a track.....erm...I know it's something obvious....erm....??
Now you have got me around this memory issue hopefully I am much happier with the unit...I can see that it can do what I was told it can do. I even had some success finding campsites near Meersburg just for fun my hitting find and pulling up the custom POI's I uploaded from the site Brock suggested...pretty neat really.
Ok...so what have I learnt so far?
A LOT!
This is basically the process I am following now for pre planning routes which may or may not be right(??) but seems to work for me:
1) I use www.bikeroutetaoster.com to plan out the rides. The line I draw on the map is called a 'TRACK'. I don't bother adding any waypoints or anything at this point.
2)I go to the summary page on BRT and save the TRACK of my ride. I then Hit the GPX icon and it saves this TRACK as a GPX file to my c drive where I have set up a folder specifically for my BRT .gpx files
3)I have installed Mapsource trip & waypoint manager on my PC (it came with the GPSmap 60Csx unit). I open this up and open the .gpx file I just saved. I see the TRACK line on the mapsource base map now, it looks like a row of black dots.
4) i then select the waypoint tool and place a waypoint (I use a green flag icon) at the start of the TRACK. I then place a red flag Way point marker at the end of the TRACK line. If it is a longer route I may place intermediate waypoint markers (at say each town i pass through for example).
5) I then select the routing tool and join up the Waypoint markers I just placed with a straight ROUTE line which is a delightful shade of vomit pink!
(I still need to figure out how to use GPSbabel to convert the TRACK into a ROUTE in one click, which is clearly a quicker and better option)
6) I then double click on the track window on the left of my screen to bring up the track properties box. here i can change the name of the TRACK. I am addeing a numeric reference to my TRACK names (i.e 1 Pub, 2, Home, 3 hospital, 4, Police station etc..)
7) Now this is the IMPORTANT part. Whilst in the track properties page I select 'filter' and ensure that it limits the Way points to a max of 250 (in my case) as the GPSmap 60CSx has a max of 1000 waypoint memory. Dont forget to select ok and have it run and reduce the waypoints.
8) I double click on the route icon on the left of my screen and change the name of the ROUTE (I use the same stoopid names as those I just gave to my tracks)
9) I then save this ROUTE as a .GPX file to a specific folder on my C drive called Mapsource ROUTES
10) with my GPS unit connected to the USB port of my PC (and recognised) I tell mapsource to send the .gpx ROUTE file to my GPS. This takes less than 2 seconds.I then re vist point 1) and plan and second ride and a third etc etc...an dfollow th eprocess back to this point. I then look in my ROUTES and my TRACKS icons in the GPS and see the stoopid names I gave my ROUTE and TRACK files in numeric order (because I will ride one a day in sequence hopefully).
I pull up ROUTE 1 PUB when I am in the Rose n' Crown and hit 'map'. I see a little black triangle (representing me on my bike) and off i go along the ROUTE I just programmed.
...well that is how I think it's working right now...I am sure there are other (better?) ways and I may have got something confused or wrong in this little summary still(??) as I have only just learn't it myself...with a LOT of help from my friends
Now you have got me around this memory issue hopefully I am much happier with the unit...I can see that it can do what I was told it can do. I even had some success finding campsites near Meersburg just for fun my hitting find and pulling up the custom POI's I uploaded from the site Brock suggested...pretty neat really.
Ok...so what have I learnt so far?
A LOT!
This is basically the process I am following now for pre planning routes which may or may not be right(??) but seems to work for me
:1) I use www.bikeroutetaoster.com to plan out the rides. The line I draw on the map is called a 'TRACK'. I don't bother adding any waypoints or anything at this point.
2)I go to the summary page on BRT and save the TRACK of my ride. I then Hit the GPX icon and it saves this TRACK as a GPX file to my c drive where I have set up a folder specifically for my BRT .gpx files
3)I have installed Mapsource trip & waypoint manager on my PC (it came with the GPSmap 60Csx unit). I open this up and open the .gpx file I just saved. I see the TRACK line on the mapsource base map now, it looks like a row of black dots.
4) i then select the waypoint tool and place a waypoint (I use a green flag icon) at the start of the TRACK. I then place a red flag Way point marker at the end of the TRACK line. If it is a longer route I may place intermediate waypoint markers (at say each town i pass through for example).
5) I then select the routing tool and join up the Waypoint markers I just placed with a straight ROUTE line which is a delightful shade of vomit pink!
(I still need to figure out how to use GPSbabel to convert the TRACK into a ROUTE in one click, which is clearly a quicker and better option)
6) I then double click on the track window on the left of my screen to bring up the track properties box. here i can change the name of the TRACK. I am addeing a numeric reference to my TRACK names (i.e 1 Pub, 2, Home, 3 hospital, 4, Police station etc..)
7) Now this is the IMPORTANT part. Whilst in the track properties page I select 'filter' and ensure that it limits the Way points to a max of 250 (in my case) as the GPSmap 60CSx has a max of 1000 waypoint memory. Dont forget to select ok and have it run and reduce the waypoints.
8) I double click on the route icon on the left of my screen and change the name of the ROUTE (I use the same stoopid names as those I just gave to my tracks)
9) I then save this ROUTE as a .GPX file to a specific folder on my C drive called Mapsource ROUTES
10) with my GPS unit connected to the USB port of my PC (and recognised) I tell mapsource to send the .gpx ROUTE file to my GPS. This takes less than 2 seconds.I then re vist point 1) and plan and second ride and a third etc etc...an dfollow th eprocess back to this point. I then look in my ROUTES and my TRACKS icons in the GPS and see the stoopid names I gave my ROUTE and TRACK files in numeric order (because I will ride one a day in sequence hopefully).
I pull up ROUTE 1 PUB when I am in the Rose n' Crown and hit 'map'. I see a little black triangle (representing me on my bike) and off i go along the ROUTE I just programmed.
...well that is how I think it's working right now...I am sure there are other (better?) ways and I may have got something confused or wrong in this little summary still(??) as I have only just learn't it myself...with a LOT of help from my friends
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Bigtallfatbloke
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Am I right in saying that although my route line does not need to be exactly the same as my track line, that when I navigate along a ride the unit will take me along the route line or is it the track line?
I have a route in the gPS...Basel to Besancon inFrance (it's a long ride of some 140km ish) I see a black track line accuatly reflecting the ride I planned in BRT, and I also to the pink route line which is basically a straight line between two waypoints (Basel and Besancon or the start and end of this ride)...this line does not stick close to the track line. I would want to follow the black line in this case on the ground as the pink line is to high level.
I am still failing to get any joy with that gpsbabel track > Route converter (get a success message but when I then load the gpx file into mapsource it is dispalyed as a track still and I see no routes listed in the route box)...so my route lines are not 'clinging' to my track lines...does this matter?...when I start to ride I dont want this thing taking me off down the high level pink route line...I'll need it to follow theblack track line.
I have a route in the gPS...Basel to Besancon inFrance (it's a long ride of some 140km ish) I see a black track line accuatly reflecting the ride I planned in BRT, and I also to the pink route line which is basically a straight line between two waypoints (Basel and Besancon or the start and end of this ride)...this line does not stick close to the track line. I would want to follow the black line in this case on the ground as the pink line is to high level.
I am still failing to get any joy with that gpsbabel track > Route converter (get a success message but when I then load the gpx file into mapsource it is dispalyed as a track still and I see no routes listed in the route box)...so my route lines are not 'clinging' to my track lines...does this matter?...when I start to ride I dont want this thing taking me off down the high level pink route line...I'll need it to follow theblack track line.
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That seems an incredibly complicated way to do a very simple job. If I were you, I would reject the kit you have bought as of Unsatisfactory Quality, then buy either the same thing or (better) the eTrex Vista HCx but with City Navigator on DVD.
That way, you simply do all the routing in Mapsource and just transfer it to your device. No multiple software packages, no conversions, no hassles.
Ben
That way, you simply do all the routing in Mapsource and just transfer it to your device. No multiple software packages, no conversions, no hassles.
Ben
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Bigtallfatbloke
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...i think there will always be alternatives, some may be better, some may not...but I leave on Saturday so I have to go with what i have, and what I have is a top class hand held gps, I just have to figure out how to drive it properly. Once i have done so I will have a class set up. i can always get the DVD some other time maybe...but I have a feeling that I wont need it as soon as I can figure out why I cant convert a track to a route in gpxbabel. I am getting to grips with the actual gps unit well now...it's jus tthe planning of rides on th epc that is a bit ropy still...but I've only had it 4 days now....so although i've hit a huge learning curve, at least i have hit it hard and am still getting up the hill so speak.
I am sure that when i return from this trip I will be an expert in this thing....I may even fly th eplane home myself with it!
I am sure that when i return from this trip I will be an expert in this thing....I may even fly th eplane home myself with it!
MockCyclist
Well-Known Member
Currently this is over-complicated but there are some redundant steps and still a bit of misunderstanding.
I think we already established that an eTrex would do the same thing in a different body, but an Edge won't, as it doesn't have sufficient waypoint capacity for touring.
The DVD mapping, without a doubt would have been a better option.
BTFB:
Steps 1,2 and 3 are fine.
At step 3 - we have a track which piedwagtail91 says just go ahead and use for your navigation. I'd like to say so as well but according to the stuff I've read you're going to run out of capacity at 1000 km. So i feel compelled to say, you've got to get that track converted to a Route and it's still not there yet.
gpsbabel: You're sure you clicked the "Filter" button, ticked Transform > Tracks to Routes ? And after a successful conversion, you opened the converted file, not the original one by mistake ?
Steps 4,5 and 6. Are you adding waypoint markers in lieu of converting to Route? Because you don't need them at all.
Step 7: The path you draw in b r toaster must not exceed 250 points, but you can get a long long way if you're clicking along your route and joining up straight lines of maybe 1km each on average or so. So when you go to the summary page of b r toaster, see how many track points you have, as long as it's less than 250 to start with then don't do the Filter in MapSource.
gps navigation: You don't want the Track to be uploaded to the gps, just the Route. You're navigating by the Route. Get rid of the Tracks in your gps.
Defining your path in bike route toaster: This is the key to getting satisfactory navigation. I try to imagine myself cycling along that road, which I've never seen before, and ask myself, where would I need to be reminded that I'm in the right place? I find in practice that my gps Off Course field varies between 0m and 30m, that's a 60m wide path which hopefully the actual road falls within ... if it exceeds 30m and the black arrow (me) has clearly left the pink line I start to think I've missed something. So you won't be following the pink line precisely at all times but it should always be visible on your screen.
You have got Auto-Routing turned off in b r toaster ?
I think we already established that an eTrex would do the same thing in a different body, but an Edge won't, as it doesn't have sufficient waypoint capacity for touring.
The DVD mapping, without a doubt would have been a better option.
BTFB:
Steps 1,2 and 3 are fine.
At step 3 - we have a track which piedwagtail91 says just go ahead and use for your navigation. I'd like to say so as well but according to the stuff I've read you're going to run out of capacity at 1000 km. So i feel compelled to say, you've got to get that track converted to a Route and it's still not there yet.
gpsbabel: You're sure you clicked the "Filter" button, ticked Transform > Tracks to Routes ? And after a successful conversion, you opened the converted file, not the original one by mistake ?
Steps 4,5 and 6. Are you adding waypoint markers in lieu of converting to Route? Because you don't need them at all.
Step 7: The path you draw in b r toaster must not exceed 250 points, but you can get a long long way if you're clicking along your route and joining up straight lines of maybe 1km each on average or so. So when you go to the summary page of b r toaster, see how many track points you have, as long as it's less than 250 to start with then don't do the Filter in MapSource.
gps navigation: You don't want the Track to be uploaded to the gps, just the Route. You're navigating by the Route. Get rid of the Tracks in your gps.
Defining your path in bike route toaster: This is the key to getting satisfactory navigation. I try to imagine myself cycling along that road, which I've never seen before, and ask myself, where would I need to be reminded that I'm in the right place? I find in practice that my gps Off Course field varies between 0m and 30m, that's a 60m wide path which hopefully the actual road falls within ... if it exceeds 30m and the black arrow (me) has clearly left the pink line I start to think I've missed something. So you won't be following the pink line precisely at all times but it should always be visible on your screen.
You have got Auto-Routing turned off in b r toaster ?
MockCyclist said:
Not quite right actually, the latest Edge's have Micro SD storage, I have a 2GB one in mine and it is nowhere near exhausting the space available - on checking I've used up 232MB which comprises 230MB of maps (bits of my favourite parts of the country in both City Navigator Topo GB and some open source maps). My routes take up 1,104KB which comprises of about 1000 miles of routes with turn by turn instructions.
I only posted this to help the next person who reads this thread, perhaps after searching on Google. The Edge is still the best tool for this if you can get it charged every night or have a power-monkey or similar instead.
Dave.
