Faster, faster!

[oldgreyandslow]

I need more speed! Endurance seems OK, I can cycle for 3 hours or more without obvious discomfort, I do know about it next morning though .

My problem is maintaining a reasonable pace, I tend to average about 15 or 16mph on a longish run, however on my usual routes I often get passed by fit b'stds who seem to glide effortlessly by, I give it a bit of acceleration catch up and try to stay with them, but after a few hunderd yards, or a bit more in some cases, I just can't keep it going and have to revert to my usual cruising speed.

I've just started adding some intervals to some of my early morning runs, 5 x 30 second bursts, with 30 s recovery in between then five minutes easy followed by another set and then again for a third time.

Is this enough?

My usual week looks like this:

Monday 30 to 45 mins, easy
Tuesday 45 mins to an hour (now with intervals as above)
Wednesday 60 to 75 mins moderate to high intensity
Thursday, as Tuesday
Friday - Nothing, rest day.
Satrurday - 3-3.5 hours
Sunday - Nothing, or possibly 30 - 60 mins very easy.

I know it's not massive mileage or time, but it's about all I can manage as far as time on the bike goes with other commitments etc.

Any advice or sugestions as to where to look for training plans etc welcome.

Ta

 

[Bill Gates]

I need more speed! Endurance seems OK, I can cycle for 3 hours or more without obvious discomfort, I do know about it next morning though .

My problem is maintaining a reasonable pace, I tend to average about 15 or 16mph on a longish run, however on my usual routes I often get passed by fit b'stds who seem to glide effortlessly by, I give it a bit of acceleration catch up and try to stay with them, but after a few hunderd yards, or a bit more in some cases, I just can't keep it going and have to revert to my usual cruising speed.

I've just started adding some intervals to some of my early morning runs, 5 x 30 second bursts, with 30 s recovery in between then five minutes easy followed by another set and then again for a third time.

Is this enough?

My usual week looks like this:

Monday 30 to 45 mins, easy
Tuesday 45 mins to an hour (now with intervals as above)
Wednesday 60 to 75 mins moderate to high intensity
Thursday, as Tuesday
Friday - Nothing, rest day.
Satrurday - 3-3.5 hours
Sunday - Nothing, or possibly 30 - 60 mins very easy.

I know it's not massive mileage or time, but it's about all I can manage as far as time on the bike goes with other commitments etc.

Any advice or sugestions as to where to look for training plans etc welcome.

Ta

IMO sprint intervals would be part of a training programme to get that little bit extra in a 10 mile TT, but only after some significant training has been done on obtaining a fast cruising speed. So unless you are racing I wouldn't concern myself with sprint training.

In order to get a fast cruising speed then you should incorporate one tempo ride of a maximum of 1-1.5 hours, and on another day, following either a rest day or and easy riding day, an hour's ride which includes long intervals of 7/8 minutes and rest periods of 2/3 minutes. Start off with one set and work up to 4 sets. The rest periods are vital so don't keep going even though you may feel strong. The objective is to raise cruising speed.

Your schedule has you doing hard work three days running Tuesday-Intervals, Wednesday- tempo, Thursday-Intervals. You haven't built in sufficient recovery, so you need to make Wednesday easy riding.

I would change it to Monday intervals, Tuesday-easy, Wednesday-tempo, Thursday-easy, Friday rest and the on the Saturday you will ride like the wind.

I've been nursing a sore knee back to health but have been following a programme like this for a couple of weeks. Last Saturday I was riding easy in readiness for some hard work on the way home and was caught by a chain gang of about 10 riders. They went past without any acknowledgement (a bit annoying that), so I rode past them all at 10 mile TT pace (HR went up to 170; I think my max is 176 which is good for a 60 year old).

After about 200 yards or so the riders started to overtake but I noticed that half of them couldn't get past my wheel so it was down to me to take my turn at the front with the other half. We hit a short but hard climb with me at the front and over the top there were only five riders and me left. Over the other side within a couple of miles we had dropped another couple of riders with me still full of pace and energy. They stopped for their mates and I never saw them again. Quite pleased with that.

My computer showed my HR had hit 175. Every time I got on to a wheel it was like the rest period of an interval training session (at least 20% less effort) so even for bunch riding it is good practice to do intervals.

 

[oldgreyandslow]

Thanks Bill,
I'll make the changes you suggested although I have read somewhere that you ought to have two interval days a week? Do you feel that 3-3 1/2hours on the Saturday is too much? I've returned to cycling "properly" this year after a few years lay off lazy riding and I'm looking to get into some sportive riding next year, I've done a few of these charity rides of about 50 odd miles this year and see the attraction of longish distance riding.
Ta

 

[Jim_Noir]

Can I just ask, when sprinting do folks drop gears? If so how low do you go?

 

[Bill Gates]

Thanks Bill,
I'll make the changes you suggested although I have read somewhere that you ought to have two interval days a week? Do you feel that 3-3 1/2hours on the Saturday is too much? I've returned to cycling "properly" this year after a few years lay off lazy riding and I'm looking to get into some sportive riding next year, I've done a few of these charity rides of about 50 odd miles this year and see the attraction of longish distance riding.
Ta

That would mean 2 x intervals and 1 x tempo ride a week, which with your current fitness levels would be overdoing it. Maybe substitute one more session of intervals for your tempo ride, every other week. I'm not a sociable type of rider (some would say person), and have always been into the athletic part of the sport. 3.5 hours would be too much if you were going too hard but if just riding then no problem.

My maximum training rides are around 2 hours; anything more than this then I get bored. I'm not training for a 70 mile road race or a 100 mile TT so IMO there is no need for the long rides. I used to train two or three times a day and that could total 70/80 miles, but in one ride; nah!

 

[Bill Gates]

Can I just ask, when sprinting do folks drop gears? If so how low do you go?

It all depends on the starting speed for your sprint. You should use a big gear but have already wound it up so to speak. You can't really sprint in a big gear from a low starting point.

 

[oldgreyandslow]

That would mean 2 x intervals and 1 x tempo ride a week, which with your current fitness levels would be overdoing it. Maybe substitute one more session of intervals for your tempo ride, every other week. I'm not a sociable type of rider (some would say person), and have always been into the athletic part of the sport. 3.5 hours would be too much if you were going too hard but if just riding then no problem.

My maximum training rides are around 2 hours; anything more than this then I get bored. I'm not training for a 70 mile road race or a 100 mile TT so IMO there is no need for the long rides. I used to train two or three times a day and that could total 70/80 miles, but in one ride; nah!

Fair enough I'll give it a go and reduce the Saturday until I get fitter I do "try" to maintain a bit of an effort in the 3 to 3.5 hour rides, it may not look like it to anyone else though

 

[lukesdad]

Ive read quite a few posts like this and a lot of people are missing out a major fact of their training programme and that is at what cadence they are firstly training at and secondly what they ride at.

Higher sustained speed can be developed by training yourself to increase the cadence that you ride at.Its not for everybody I know,and there will be differences of opion.

I agree with Bill Gates abiut the sprint training,Id concentrate on your leg speed.

I ride at a cadence of 90-95 on all my long rides 100+ and Im no spring chicken

 

[Bill Gates]

Ive read quite a few posts like this and a lot of people are missing out a major fact of their training programme and that is at what cadence they are firstly training at and secondly what they ride at.

Higher sustained speed can be developed by training yourself to increase the cadence that you ride at.Its not for everybody I know,and there will be differences of opion.

I agree with Bill Gates abiut the sprint training,Id concentrate on your leg speed.

I ride at a cadence of 90-95 on all my long rides 100+ and Im no spring chicken

A touchy subject is cadence. I've locked horns in the past with sports scientists and coaches who have preached the gospel according to their analysis of scientifically produced data derived from graphs and power readings etc. etc. However at the end of the day it's all down to an individual rider's mix of slow/fast twitch mucle fibres.

On the other hand IMO you have to train specifically for a particular cadence in order to be efficient at that cadence. If you ride mainly @ 85rpm then to suddenly ride @ +100rpm is not going to do it for you. It is said that cadence is a red herring and that it's all about power. Well I'm no scientist so i can only speak from my own experience.

For me the optimum cadence on a flat road for a 10 mile TT is in the range of 95-100 rpm. For a 25 mile TT 90-95rpm and above that anything around 90rpm. But I train at 95-100 rpm and I do sprint intervals @140rpm.

 

[jimboalee]

+1 Bill.

I agree totally with your comment about fast/slow muscle fibre mix.

A cyclist's legs are like a motorcar engine and have a curve of efficiency ( dictated by your camshaft profile ).

This can be evaluated by a quick hour on a gym bike which has a 'constant power' setting.
The bike will adjust the resistance to get the same Watts whatever cadence you pedal.

When you get in your 'power band', you will notice a slight reduction in heartrate.

In my case, working at 200 Watts, lower than 60 rpm starts to hurt because my muscles are going anaerobic. 60 - 80 rpm gets my HR up. 80 - 85 is where my HR is lower and over 90 my HR increases again.

As Bill suggests, spinning 'does not do it' for me. I have the numbers to prove it and no end of preaching by sports scientists can change my mind.

 

[lukesdad]

To be correct the legs are the conrods with your chainset being the crankshaft the body is the rest of the engine. Only this engine suffers from fatigue.

Another important consideration is the stroke of this engine shorter strokers will rev higher given the same capacity.

 

[jimboalee]

To be correct the legs are the conrods with your chainset being the crankshaft the body is the rest of the engine. Only this engine suffers from fatigue.

Another important consideration is the stroke of this engine shorter strokers will rev higher given the same capacity.

To be truly correct, the lower leg is the con-rod, the knee is the wrist-pin and the quadriceps are a set of 'shrinking' chambers which when fired, pull the upper/lower leg assembly straight.

Coincidentally, the glutes do the same between the pelvis and upper leg so there is a secondary, simultaneous action.

The lower leg calf muscle ( because I can't spell Gastrocnemius ) holds the ankle ridgid or extends it slightly if the pelvis is too far away.


Every muscle fibre is 'fired' my the Motor Neurone centre of the brain. To fuel the muscle fibre's contraction, Adenosine Triphosphate is broken into Adenosine Diphosphate and a spare Phosphate. This happens millions of times every second of your life.
ADP is rejoined to make ATP by the energy released when a sugar molecule oxydises. Again, millions of times every second.

Exercising a LOT, and at HIGH intensity encourages more muscle fibres to work. To allow them to work effectively and efficiently, fuel and oxygen need to be supplied, so ONLY when each muscle fibre bundle is capillarised with tiny blood vessels can more fibres be utilised.

Capillarisation takes weeks. If you try too soon, you get DOMS - Delayed Onset of Muscular Soreness, and you are laid low for a few days.

Building muscle for more power, to get more speed - takes MONTHS, even YEARS.

Blood capillaries are made of Protein. So are the Sarcomeres of every muscle.

Eat your protein, or you will never get faster.

 

[peanut]

well i'd have to disagree with one of your statements Jimbo. It may take months to build muscle on some folk particularly ectomorphs but a mesomorph like me can build huge muscle mass in just a few weeks.

In 6-8 weeks of heavy building work I can increase my forearms from the current 15" to 18" When taking up cycling again last year my thighs increased from 22.5" to 26" in 2 months.

With such a marked preponderance of fast twitch muscle I can barely achieve 80rpm cruising but can sit at 60-70rpm all day with considerable accelerative power.

Each of my legs weigh an estimated 3.5+ Stones(22Kg) so you can see it would be counter-productive to try to shift that muscle mass at anything approaching 90 rpm

I agree this is an extreme case but the example illustrates my points about building muscle and ideal cadence .

 

[lukesdad]

Ive learnt something thank you,but to get back to the original post, the point I was trying to make was that vital info had been left out of his training log:- cadence,physique and your right diet.

If cadence is so insignificant,then why do you use it as a bench mark in your riding or is it just to control your heart rate.

Be careful when eating proteins some take 36 hours to digest,dont eat a steak on a saturday night and race on a sunday not a good idea.

 

[peanut]

If cadence is so insignificant,then why do you use it as a bench mark in your riding or is it just to control your heart rate.

.

I don't use it, I, like most riders here, am a leisure and fitness rider. Cadence training is irrelevant, unless you are a serious racer in which case most serious riders are sensible enough to listen to their own bodies and observe what works best for them.

If you need a working example of this one only needs to observe the cadence of elite riders in a Pro tour to see the widely varied cadence rates employed amongst the peleton.