Faster/better 28c tyres for hybrid?

[GrasB]

toby123, which Spesh Armadillos have you got, All Condition or Nimbus? I've found the ACA one of the easiest tyres to get on, with my current rims I can fit the 700x28C ACAs with my fingers alone & only need 2 tyre levers to get the tyre off until I can get my fingers between the rim & bead.

Currently, the best r&d in this area (balance between speed and durability) is going into the 650b size, with a new 38mm "Pari-Moto" about to hit the scene...

Exactly by whom & for what reason was this compromise decided on? This sounds like a one size fits all solution based on pre-decided outcome. While certainly it may well suit a large number of people down to the ground it certainly won't be the ideal compromise for everyone.

There is no good argument for anything less than 25mm and better to use minimum 28s IMO for commuting, touring and long-distance riding.

According to your riding compromises. Personally I quite like the extra acceleration I get when commuting on 700x23c, or even better 650x23c, tyres compared to 700x28c. But certainly when in the saddle for more than 3 hours I prefer to ride on 700x28c tyres, it's not even the improved comfort it's the fact I don't have to ride around as many surface artifacts.

And experiment with tyre pressures somewhat less than orthodoxy insists. For instance, unless you weigh 15 stone, a 28mm tyre needs no more than 70-80 psi. You might be pleasantly surprised.

At around 13st I've found much bellow 70-80psi is asking for pinch punctures on my 700x28Cs when riding down the backroads at speed. Also when talking about speed from 80/85psi f/r down I've found my bike gets very wallowy & vague on bumpy corners, especially smooth polished but pitted concrete surfaces.

 

[Randochap]

Exactly by whom & for what reason was this compromise decided on? This sounds like a one size fits all solution based on pre-decided outcome. While certainly it may well suit a large number of people down to the ground it certainly won't be the ideal compromise for everyone.

You are quite right that pre-decided outcomes should be regarded as suspect and so opinions based on nothing more than resistance to unfamiliar ideas should be ignored. The r&d going into 650b is being advanced by those who have extensive first-hand experience with the standard and are putting their money where their mouth is.

Reasons? First, the virtues were clear to those who had ridden the remaining tyres available, and equally clear that those tyres -- like Schwalbe HS159 -- left something to be desired when it came to performance (though the HS159 is a brilliant, heavy duty commuting tyre). There are now a wide variety of choices. Grand Bois stepped up and among their tyres, in the opinion of almost everyone who has ridden it, the 42mm "Hetre" is the gold standard. Now, as mentioned, the Pacenti PariMoto is eagerly awaited, with the prototype made and final tweaks to the mould announced last week.

According to your riding compromises. Personally I quite like the extra acceleration I get when commuting on 700x23C, or even better 650x23c, tyres compared to 700x28c. But certainly when in the saddle for more than 3 hours I prefer to ride on 700x28c tyres, it's not even the improved comfort it's the fact I don't have to ride around as many surface artifacts.

I'm sorry but, in my experience, sudden acceleration is not a characteristic I much notice on a commuter or loaded bike and even so, I can detect no difference between, say my 28s and 42s in that regard. Only when I climb on my titanium bike, stripped of all accessories and with my Campag Shamals can I detect a bit more pep off the line or on steep rollers. Again, this falls into second place on bumpy roads and carrying any weight.

At around 13st I've found much bellow 70-80psi is asking for pinch punctures on my 700x28Cs when riding down the backroads at speed. Also when talking about speed from 80/85psi f/r down I've found my bike gets very wallowy & vague on bumpy corners, especially smooth polished but pitted concrete surfaces.

I agree, at 13st you should probably pump up your 28C tyres to 90psi. I was using 15st as a metaphor for "you big guys" and, compared to me, 13st is a big guy. I should have been more specific. But my overall point remains and you should probably try 650b (or tyres generally wider than 28C) as the ultimate answer to all the problems you describe, especially those pesky "artifacts." -- a 38-42 mm tyre, with 60psi would give the best overall "compromise," as you call it. I prefer the term "optimization."

In the end though, ride whatever you believe is getting the job done for you.

 

[Randochap]

is there is a difference in the propensity of a tyre to pinch puncture in relation to size alone? If you had all other things equal would a 23mm be more likely to pinch than a 32mm? I don't mean identical pressure but equalised, say 85psi in the 32 and 105 in the 23.

High volume tyres will generally be less prone to pinch flats.

 

[GrasB]

I'm sorry but, in my experience, sudden acceleration is not a characteristic I much notice on a commuter or loaded bike and even so, I can detect no difference between, say my 28s and 42s in that regard.

I don't notice the acceleration it's self but what I do notice is that it takes an extra 1 or 2 crank revolutions to get from 20ppm (3.5mph) to 100ppm (17mph) on 39:18 with the 700x28Cs. That extra 5-10m or so is the difference of being able to slip into gaps on in-town roundabouts safely & not. I think this maybe due to the high weight of my 28C tyres & that going for lighter tyres would give me back most of that acceleration.

 

[Randochap]

I don't notice the acceleration it's self but what I do notice is that it takes an extra 1 or 2 crank revolutions to get from 20ppm (3.5mph) to 100ppm (17mph) on 39:18 with the 700x28Cs. That extra 5-10m or so is the difference of being able to slip into gaps on in-town roundabouts safely & not. I think this maybe due to the high weight of my 28C tyres & that going for lighter tyres would give me back most of that acceleration.

Are you riding fixed?

At 3.5 mph using 39/18X700, you're turning 20.5 RPM; just under 100 RPM at 17mph. There are the same #of crank revolutions, given the same diameter, though a larger tyre (diameter) would = less.

So it comes down to a matter of revolving weight and the difference is what? An ounce?

 

[Mr Celine]

Back to the original topic...

My Sirrus came with 700x28 Nimbus Armadillos. One p*ncture in 9,000 miles between the pair of them, but both had to be replaced due to the tread de-laminating.
I now use Conti Gatorskins. I don't notice any difference in speed and they aren't as puncture resistant as the armadilloes but they are far more comfortable and better in the wet. And they've gone further than the armadilloes did with no sign of the tread falling off.

 

[Randochap]

Though they win no performance prizes, the Gatorskin is indeed a good quality tyre at a good price and fairly robust. I used them (28mm) on my last 600km brevet in terrible weather, on challenging road surfaces, without issues.

 

[toby123]

I have Spez Armadillo 700 x 28c road tyres on my hybrid, but have a suspicion that they are not the fastest tyres for this width.

Sometimes I think that maybe I am just making excuses for being unfit.