Facing a tire in the right direction

[Tangoup51]

[QUOTE 5029174, member: 45"]Tread on road tyres is absolutely nothing more than a marketing gimmick. So it doesn't matter which way you fit your tyre.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE 5029194, member: 45"]You can't argue with physics.

Tread on tyres for road use is there to displace water and avoid aquaplaning. Bike tyres don't aquaplane, so the tread serves no purpose.[/QUOTE]



Tread is designed to dissipate foreign substances as efficiently & safely as possible to maintain adequate traction. - That goes beyond water, that can go to stones, dirt & general debris.

Granted, alot of Road bike tires don't offer any meaningful tread (Sub 28c) - but thats because they're seldom expected to be ridden on sketchy surfaces that might require tread - but Hybrid tires are a good example of some very interesting tread patterns -- but all patterns can offer multiple benefits if it is facing the right direction.

I've heard multiple counter arguments about "not caring which way the tire sits"

Some include,

Premature wear of tread contours

Decreased puncture resistance

Increase in rolling resistance

As for the validity of such arguments, I'm sure you'd have to be pushing your tires extremely hard every single day to find any ramification on whether these claims are even slightly true, but presumably your Tire/Tread pattern would of been tested and designed to operate in that direction (if it has a directional arrow) so perhaps it's better to just bite the bullet and put them on the Right way round.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Tread is designed to dissipate foreign substances as efficiently & safely as possible to maintain adequate traction. - That goes beyond water, that can go to stones, dirt & general debris.

Would you care to describe now tyre tread dissipate stones and debris?

Granted, alot of Road bike tires don't offer any meaningful tread (Sub 28c) - but thats because they're seldom expected to be ridden on sketchy surfaces that might require tread - but Hybrid tires are a good example of some very interesting tread patterns -- but all patterns can offer multiple benefits if it is facing the right direction.

I'm curious to find out about these interesting patterns found on hybrids and why they are so interesting? Name a few of the benefits too, please.

I've heard multiple counter arguments about "not caring which way the tire sits"

Some include,

Premature wear of tread contours

Decreased puncture resistance

Increase in rolling resistance

As for the validity of such arguments, I'm sure you'd have to be pushing your tires extremely hard every single day to find any ramification on whether these claims are slightly true, but presumably your Tire/Tread pattern would of been tested and designed to operate in that direction (if it has a directional arrow) so perhaps it's better to just bite the bullet and put them on the Right way round.

I find the last sentence hard to digest but I see something in there of us just having to trust some authority because it/they presumably tested something. You know what they say of assumption. Assumption is the mother off all stuff they sensor on this forum.

 

[Tangoup51]

Would you care to describe now tyre tread dissipate stones and debris?



I'm curious to find out about these interesting patterns found on hybrids and why they are so interesting? Name a few of the benefits too, please.



I find the last sentence hard to digest but I see something in there of us just having to trust some authority because it/they presumably tested something. You know what they say of assumption. Assumption is the mother off all stuff they sensor on this forum.

Describe how tread interacts with individual stones and debris? Do you really want an answer or a Novel of a reply? It'd be in the same way it can disperse fluids. Again, depending on what kind of debris you're riding over but Generally Tread is pretty good at dispersing things.



Well generally it's because Hybrid tires are more heavily marketed to varying terrain and mixed use than their smaller road bike counterparts, so they often have more Aggressive tread patterns because of the varied use.

I'm not sure what "benefits" your asking for, but presumably Benefits of the interesting tread patterns on hybrids? - Well that's what we're here to find out, so far the only evidence I've heard is from what other people have said and "assumed."


I struggle to see which part of my last sentence you "find hard to digest" if that's too hard for you I am genuinely sorry, presumably you must of died reading through this reply.

And if your ending argument is that you can't find safety from tested manufactured products then I'm going to question what can you base your safety on.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Another one of your gems.

Everyone else, there ain't no boundary layer tripping in this scenario. There is such a thing but it has nothing to do with tyres or dispersing water between a tyre and the road.

It is totally irrelevant which way your tyres point, as long as it is not sideways, as Jefmcg so shrewdly pointed out.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Are you sure about that?

Yup, it looks a lot like another one of your gems to me.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Yup, it looks a lot like another one of your gems to me.

Recent wind-tunnel testing by Swiss Side found that the tread-pattern of a Continental Grand Prix tyre influenced the aerodynamics of their Hadron wheel design, where the reverse direction performed better than the forward direction.

Engineers attributed this effect to “boundary layer tripping”, whereby the patterned tread helped the air flow over the wheel. The importance of this phenomenon has been considered by others resulting in Reynolds’ Swirl Lip Generator, Bontrager’s Aero Wings, and Mavic’s CX01 Technology, however these approaches concentrated on the sidewalls of the tyre or rim rather than the tread of the tyre.

Oh dear, you’ve done it again.

As has been said, it’s better if you keep your mouth shut, and let people think you’re an idiot, than open it and prove them right.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Describe how tread interacts with individual stones and debris? Do you really want an answer or a Novel of a reply? It'd be in the same way it can disperse fluids. Again, depending on what kind of debris you're riding over but Generally Tread is pretty good at dispersing things.



Well generally it's because Hybrid tires are more heavily marketed to varying terrain and mixed use than their smaller road bike counterparts, so they often have more Aggressive tread patterns because of the varied use.

I'm not sure what "benefits" your asking for, but presumably Benefits of the interesting tread patterns on hybrids? - Well that's what we're here to find out, so far the only evidence I've heard is from what other people have said and "assumed."


I struggle to see which part of my last sentence you "find hard to digest" if that's too hard for you I am genuinely sorry, presumably you must of died reading through this reply.

And if your ending argument is that you can't find safety from tested manufactured products then I'm going to question what can you base your safety on.

OK, let's try again.

1) Can you explain how tread disperses gravel and debris? No need for a novel, just a sentence or two. You can start with: "a rolling tyre approaches a pebble..." and proceed from there if you like. Then do the same but substitute pebble with what ever piece of debris you like.

2) Tell us about what benefits you were talking about in your original sentence which read: "but all patterns can offer multiple benefits if it is facing the right direction."

3) You are mangling my question. I want to know why we should assume that tyres were tested and that the results of these tests were a particular pattern that is directional. Why should we assume the unknown when we can prove the known?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Recent wind-tunnel testing by Swiss Side found that the tread-pattern of a Continental Grand Prix tyre influenced the aerodynamics of their Hadron wheel design, where the reverse direction performed better than the forward direction.

Engineers attributed this effect to “boundary layer tripping”, whereby the patterned tread helped the air flow over the wheel. The importance of this phenomenon has been considered by others resulting in Reynolds’ Swirl Lip Generator, Bontrager’s Aero Wings, and Mavic’s CX01 Technology, however these approaches concentrated on the sidewalls of the tyre or rim rather than the tread of the tyre.

Oh dear, you’ve done it again.

As has been said, it’s better if you keep your mouth shut, and let people think you’re an idiot, than open it and prove them right.

Your first link gets me to a 404, the other three to marketing brochures.
You may want to reconsider the part I highlighted in bold for you.
I see nothing there of interrupting the laminar flow of water between tyre and tarmac.

 

[PK99]

Recent wind-tunnel testing by Swiss Side found that the tread-pattern of a Continental Grand Prix tyre influenced the aerodynamics of their Hadron wheel design, where the reverse direction performed better than the forward direction.

Engineers attributed this effect to “boundary layer tripping”, whereby the patterned tread helped the air flow over the wheel. The importance of this phenomenon has been considered by others resulting in Reynolds’ Swirl Lip Generator, Bontrager’s Aero Wings, and Mavic’s CX01 Technology, however these approaches concentrated on the sidewalls of the tyre or rim rather than the tread of the tyre.

Oh dear, you’ve done it again.

As has been said, it’s better if you keep your mouth shut, and let people think you’re an idiot, than open it and prove them right.

My reading tells me that the (real) phonomenon you are talking about is an issue on high end bling areo time trial or triathlon deep section wheels at over 35kph and running tyres 2-4mm narrower than the brake track.

Eg http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/what-effect-do-tyres-have-on-aerodynamics-324578

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Mod note:

I'm starting to wonder whether we should have a seperate area for wheel and tyre discussion like we do for helmets as certain people cannot respond without making it needlessly argumentative.

Tone it down or this thread won't stay open much longer.

 

[Tangoup51]

OK, let's try again.

1) Can you explain how tread disperses gravel and debris? No need for a novel, just a sentence or two. You can start with: "a rolling tyre approaches a pebble..." and proceed from there if you like. Then do the same but substitute pebble with what ever piece of debris you like.

2) Tell us about what benefits you were talking about in your original sentence which read: "but all patterns can offer multiple benefits if it is facing the right direction."

3) You are mangling my question. I want to know why we should assume that tyres were tested and that the results of these tests were a particular pattern that is directional. Why should we assume the unknown when we can prove the known?

Sure, We'll use my tires as an example

1) The center-line of the tread is slick but with Deep Cut-out grooves that come in at an angle to intercept the edges of the smooth slick center-line.

When debris is caught in the center line (and weight is applied) the rubber yields enough for the stone to be forced into the intercepting angle-cut edges, the deep tread swallows the stone & debris entirely removing it from the center line.

2) You really should of made it clearer you were referring to that, but I'll let that slide. - we can establish that tread (though, this varies) can displace foreign objects (which, may not be done as efficiently or at all if the tire is on backwards) and there are Alternative Theories that may have truth to them "i,e, increased tread wear" -- I am very skeptical to the legitimacy of those kind of claims (Personally) but the point stands that we don't hear Good things happening when you put it on backwards, do we? Hence why there multiple benefits overall if you just do it Right.


3) I did not mangle your question, it wasn't easy to read.

This, is more common sense. I've seen manufacturing tests on tires (like wear testing) and they would of been followed to the direction of the tread - Subsequently, the arrow. - Meaning, when you face the directional point of the arrow you're facing the direction the tire was Designed & Tested on.
-

 

[buzzy-beans]

I like these English chappies who know how to spell the word TYRE, heaven help us all with all of these bastardised American spellings of our words!!

 

[Tangoup51]

I like these English chappies who know how to spell the word TYRE, heaven help us all with all of these bastardised American spellings of our words!!

Some old auto-spell correcting software my computer has doesn't allow "tyre" as a valid word, so i'm reduced to tire

 

[Ming the Merciless]

My reading tells me that the (real) phonomenon you are talking about is an issue on high end bling areo time trial or triathlon deep section wheels at over 35kph and running tyres 2-4mm narrower than the brake track.

Eg http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/what-effect-do-tyres-have-on-aerodynamics-324578

Your reading of what, Racing Roadkill is putting in a made up link to a non existent web page,

 

[Racing roadkill]

My reading tells me that the (real) phonomenon you are talking about is an issue on high end bling areo time trial or triathlon deep section wheels at over 35kph and running tyres 2-4mm narrower than the brake track.

Eg http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/product-news/what-effect-do-tyres-have-on-aerodynamics-324578

That’s where the advantages are felt most, it still happens on any of the tyres with treaded edges, and indeed any treaded tyres ( to a lesser extent ).