Establishing steepness of a hill-anything online?

[ColinJ]

I just came by this info/suggestions for steep climbs in Sheffield.
The definitive list of cycling climbs *in* Sheffield - Digital Cyclist
https://digitalcyclist.co.uk/cycling/top-hills/the-definitive-list-of-cycling-climbs-in-sheffield/

That lot will keep you busy for a while!

Once you have done them all one at a time, why not plan a monster day out and tackle them all in one ride?

Why worry about how hard a climb is? In my book on a new climb knowing what's ahead makes the challenge harder.

We obviously don't read the same books! I absolutely hate surprises, especially out on the bike.

For example we headed over to Ashworth Valley recently, 2.4 mile cat 3. I didn't know this till afterwards. After I'd ridden over the first summit I shouted to my partner "Is that it?" "No, two miles to go " That wasn't an answer which helped!!!!

That kind of thing does my head in. That reminds me of the climb from Keasden to Bowland Knotts. I hadn't realised that what I thought was the summit ahead was actually only halfway up so I rode as hard as I could to that 'summit', grovelled over the top, and only then discovered my mistake...

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!

I suffer on my bike and I want to know how much suffering I am going to have to endure. I want to be able to minimise my suffering on a particular ride by choosing my route carefully and by pacing myself. I can't do that unless I know where I am going and what it is going to be like.

I don't want to ride up a hill and watch my effort because I think it will be really tough, but then find out that I could have tried much harder. I also don't want to expect something to be easy, race really hard up the first half, turn a bend and discover a wall which I can't manage to ride up!

I Street View every metre of every new route these days. I found it quite strange not being able to do that for my MTB forum ride at the weekend. I had ridden the whole route in the past but some parts of it not for a few years and I wouldn't to remind myself what those were like.

Ashworth Road is one local(ish) climb that I would actually like to tackle. The thing that puts me off is that I don't like the roads at the bottom and top of it.

 

[a.twiddler]

I read somewhere that if you know the name of your enemy, that gives you power over them. Does this also apply to monster hills? I think so, because when cycling, it's not just the physical factor, but the psychology too. In my case, though I might sting like a butterfly and float like a bee, I can still (eventually) get up anything even if some of it might be on foot.

 

[PaulSB]

That lot will keep you busy for a while!

Once you have done them all one at a time, why not plan a monster day out and tackle them all in one ride?

Sheffield is too far away for that and we don't do drive 'n' ride as it seems to defeat the purpose. Very occasionally if someone has come up with something special, Great Dun Fell for a day, but it has to be a good one. We will catch the train but not cars unless essential

I suffer on my bike and I want to know how much suffering I am going to have to endure. I want to be able to minimise my suffering on a particular ride by choosing my route carefully and by pacing myself. I can't do that unless I know where I am going and what it is going to be like.

In all honesty if it is that much suffering I wouldn't bother. Like yesterday, my club had a good ride including Jubliee Tower, the full climb. I thought about Jubilee Tower, asked myself "Do I fancy that today?" The answer was no so I did other things.

I Street View every metre of every new route these days.

I truly don't understand this, nor could I remember it. Where's the joy of trundling along not entirely sure of what's coming up. Some of the best rides I do are when a buddy suggests somewhere I haven't been before, or I have forgotten. It's largely why we got into gravel, to ride round a corner and think "WOW!"

Ashworth Road is one local(ish) climb that I would actually like to tackle. The thing that puts me off is that I don't like the roads at the bottom and top of it.

I agree, it's a bit grim riding to the start for a mile or so but c'est la vie, the top is wonderful. A great cafe in Edenfield, moors, fine views and a good descent to Ramsbottom, not perfect but a lot of fun! For some good stuff one has to ignore the bad, we like riding in Cheshire but it's a pain to do the urban stuff which we have to go through first, it soon passes though.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

It's always interesting to see how different we all are......

I suffer on my bike and I want to know how much suffering I am going to have to endure.

I am not a sporty cyclist. My bike is for transport and recreation. I couldn't give a fig about performance. Once, when I got my shiny new gps I discovered Strava segments and started racing myself to work, It took me a couple of weeks to figure out that I wasn't enjoying my commute as much as I used to.

Most of my recent biking has been on tour.

I used not care a fig for elevation either and happily set off in areas unknown. Sometimes hard work, very hard work. These days, I'll pay attention to elevation and I have an expectation of what to expect on the tougher days.

I Street View every metre of every new route these days.

That's a thing I couldn't imagine doing in any detail. I streetview a few points along the way to check what the road is like (shoulder etc.) but actively avoid trying to find out anything more than is absolutely necessary. In truth, many of my preferred roads don't feature on Streetview
This summer, for example, in Spain in exceptional heat I marked off any public water fountains near my route and put a reminder on Gizmo, my gps. In the mountains I started to put in notes like "200m climb starts here" or even "summit here" if it looked deceptive.
Osmand was a great tool as it works offline and gives pretty accurate elevation data for moments of roadside despair.

For contrast, I am aware of one long distance tourer who has an international ride of several months planned in meticulous detail even down to grading how each day will be in terms of "enjoyment" several years before departure. It is so far removed from my idea of a bike tour that I really struggle to understand it.

Interestingly, I met another bike tourist, a German girl, who didn't just avoid hills - she loathed them. And was perfectly candid, in the German way, in expressing her confusion (and disdain) towards cyclists who would willingly climb hills and mountains.
I don't normally seek them out but if they're between me and where I want to go.........

Last year, I happily set off up one of the longest climbs in the world, blissfully unaware of what I was attempting. About a third of the way up, having passed numerous signs I eventually googled it! I'm pretty sure that had I known what it was I would have attempted to avoid it. And that would have been a big loss. Sure, it took me three days but what a fantastic three days! People pay up to $10,000 to fly in, get a bike, acclimatise for a day, ride it, have a spa recovery day and fly home.

We're all different.

 

[Alex321]

Why worry about how hard a climb is? In my book on a new climb knowing what's ahead makes the challenge harder.

For example we headed over to Ashworth Valley recently, 2.4 mile cat 3. I didn't know this till afterwards. After I'd ridden over the first summit I shouted to my partner "Is that it?" "No, two miles to go " That wasn't an answer which helped!!!!

I would generally prefer to have some idea what I was getting into, certainly before a big climb, just so I can have some idea how to pace myself.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

the climb from Keasden to Bowland Knotts.

Did that a couple of years ago at the end of a 100 miler from near Clitheroe through the Dales. Damn near killed me, not sure I've ever been more drained on a bike.

I Street View every metre of every new route these days.

This is very weird to me! The OS is my weapon of choice, and number of arrows plus height difference more than suffices to understand the level of challenge for me. However, as @HobbesOnTour rightly says

We're all different.

 

[Ian H]

Here you are: perfect graphic representation of steepness - available free to view on Bing Maps (choose OS under the righthand menu).

 

[a.twiddler]

I like to plan and be prepared, but sometimes it's nice to have a random route and take things as they come. Years ago while living in West Wales I accompanied a friend to Harlech where he was staying, then made my own way back home, as part of an unexpected long weekend break. He'd planned the route, and this time I was content to go with the flow. We had a mystery tour the first day to New Quay YHA (Cardiganshire). The next day was quite a demanding hilly ride along Cardigan Bay, crossing an endless series of small river valleys, compensated for by the sight of a school of dolphins who we fancifully felt were keeping us company as we rode north to Borth YHA. The next day we woke to torrential rain but it was mild, so we just rode through it. The highlight was crossing Barmouth Bridge, at that time closed to trains, awaiting repairs. We stayed at Llanbedr YHA that night, then the next day I left him at his place in Harlech.

It's nice to have company, but I was pleased to be on my own again. He'd given me a route to Bala via Trawsfynydd and I couldn't improve on the first part which though over a mountain road wasn't that mountainous. Getting from Trawsfynydd to Bala was much tougher but since I was where I was, I pressed on. I was reminded of the phrase, "if I wanted to go there, I wouldn't have started from here". I eventually reached Bala YHA, Plas Rhiwaedog, which was actually beyond Bala, on the mountain road to Lake Vyrnwy. I was pretty wrung out by then. Due to having to get home for work, my plan for the next day was to continue along this road to Lake Vyrnwy, to Welshpool via Llanfyllin, train to Shrewsbury, then via the heart of Wales line to home. Ideally, I would have liked another couple of days to take a leisurely ride home.

Next day, thinking that this was the home straight after all the climbing I'd done over the last few days, I was a bit taken aback at how tough it was. I'd expected a good climb up to the watershed of the river Hirnant, but after miles of grinding up hill, every time I reached a summit, the road wound round a shoulder of hill and revealed more miles of winding uphill road. The view behind was pretty spectacular though. Into a forest, and steeply downhill to the level going alongside Lake Vyrnwy. Having passed over the dam, and expecting the rest of the day to be more relaxed, it was quite demoralising to have to fight most of the way to Welshpool. At that point I regarded my faithful bike as an instrument of torture. If I'd had the opportunity to take a couple of days to get home after a good night's sleep, my bike and I would soon have become friends again.

Of course this animosity didn't last. Come the next weekend, I was out on the usual club run. Hills are just relative. If you're competitive and concerned about keeping up with your clubmates, and everything in life is a challenge to be overcome, they're going to be tough. If you're more laid back, hey, dude, all things are transient, this too shall pass, no point getting angry with the earth, or irritated with your own shortcomings. Just chill, be happy you can do what you can do. For every hard earned uphill there is a downhill, don't squander it.
Or maybe somewhere in between. I wouldn't mind an inclinometer, though, maybe one for each bike.

 

[a.twiddler]

"Little arrows, little arrows, little arrows everywhere, little arrows in your fingers, little arrows in your hair" but preferably not on the map of the road on which you hope to travel unless they give you a short sharp alternative to a long draggy climb. Other opinions are available, of course.
You don't have to be a masochist to ride a bike, but sometimes it helps.

 

[ColinJ]

Here you are: perfect graphic representation of steepness - available free to view on Bing Maps (choose OS under the righthand menu).
View attachment 683274

I will have to see if I can find an OS map that I bought about 30 years ago. It would probably be a collector's item now because someone had cocked up at OS HQ - it featured a big area with the ultra-steep climbs of the North York Moors but there were no chevrons shown on any of the climbs!

 

[Sterlo]

This is like a Cat 1 climb around here, goes from 29ft up to an oxygen depleting 53ft at the summit.

 

[ColinJ]

This is like a Cat 1 climb around here, goes from 29ft up to an oxygen depleting 53ft at the summit.
View attachment 683304

That's an excellent example... I wouldn't want to come across that monster without a triple chainset on my bike and a packed lunch for the mid-climb rest stop!

 

[Sterlo]

That's an excellent example... I wouldn't want to come across that monster without a triple chainset on my bike and a packed lunch for the mid-climb rest stop!

Wow, I must be better than I thought, I can get up it in one go and I've only got a double.

 

[Ian H]

I will have to see if I can find an OS map that I bought about 30 years ago. It would probably be a collector's item now because someone had cocked up at OS HQ - it featured a big area with the ultra-steep climbs of the North York Moors but there were no chevrons shown on any of the climbs!

I don't think the 1:250000 maps show chevrons, only the larger scale ones. But you also look at the contours for steepness, as my map above. And it's all free to view online.

 

[ColinJ]

I don't think the 1:250000 maps show chevrons, only the larrger scale ones. But you also look at the contours for steepness, as my map above. And it's all free to view online.

It was the 1:25,000, which definitely SHOULD have had them!

I have digital OS maps on my phone, tablet and laptop for the whole of Britain at 1:250k, 1:50k, 1:25k and 1:10k scales. I use them to plot all of my new routes.

As you say, chevrons and contour lines give a lot of information, but despite that I have been caught out a few times by ramps which are harder than expected.

It is not a really big issue for most rides but if I were going to push myself for distance AND elevation gain AND steepness AND hours of daylight then I would want to be really sure of what lay ahead. I definitely don't like missing the last train home when exhausted!