English

[colly]

I thought it wouldn't be long before we had some kind of controversy.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Okay... So "controversial"'s stress pattern is akin to, say, "anabolic", then? You do have an interesting speech pattern!

I stress "controversy" like "interloper" - first and third syllable. As I've said on another post, there isn't really a wrong way.

Stu

Here's a challenge for you then: find me a dictionary that gives a phonetic spelling for any of the contro- variations with TWO stressed syllables!

 

[byegad]

The BBC decreed that the proper pronounciation was the latter hence why it's taken hold so widely.

Yes. However the BBC some years ago decided that the Himalayas should be pronounced Him-are-lee-as. They stuck with it for several years before returning to the more common pronunciation.

 

[Marshmallow_Fluff]

When I first moved to England I was amazed by the lack of respect people had towards foreign words, names and terms! Sometimes I failed to even recognise words from my mother tongue, as their pronounciation had altered the word beyond recognition! To say nothing about my surname.. It took me a good while to appreciate the fact that -in their majority- the British are not linguistically educated, most hardly speaking a second language!! It felt also quite ironic to be corrected (and sometimes laughed at) in minor errors from people that only speak one language (I personally speak five fluently). I got used to it over the years and just have my minute of fun every time I hear someone trying to pronounce "millefeuille" and other amuzing foreign words! I also like to thing that I treated (still do) my friends to hours of fun with my "linguistic pearls"!

 

[Longshot]

most hardly speaking a second language

Ahhh, but when your first language is English, you don't need to learn any others.

 

[vernon]

I suppose it's easy to think English is "obvious" if it's your first language, but I wouldn't exactly describe it as the most logical language in history.

Btw, it should be "cannot", not "can not"!

Stu

Oh dear. It's so dangerous to 'correct' a perceived error in a spelling and grammar thread without checking the validity of your assertions.

'Cannot' and 'can not' are both valid. If Oxford University Press can't get it right no-one can.

This is a cycling forum littered with typos, misspellings and grammatical errors. I've learned to live with them.

It's better to bite your tongue and let others display their lack of mastery of the English than to broadcast your own .

 

[vernon]

When I first moved to England I was amazed by the lack of respect people had towards foreign words, names and terms! Sometimes I failed to even recognise words from my mother tongue, as their pronounciation had altered the word beyond recognition! To say nothing about my surname.. It took me a good while to appreciate the fact that -in their majority- the British are not linguistically educated, most hardly speaking a second language!! It felt also quite ironic to be corrected (and sometimes laughed at) in minor errors from people that only speak one language (I personally speak five fluently). I got used to it over the years and just have my minute of fun every time I hear someone trying to pronounce "millefeuille" and other amuzing foreign words! I also like to thing that I treated (still do) my friends to hours of fun with my "linguistic pearls"!

I enjoy cycle touring in France as I abandon English when I set foot on French soil. I am far from fluent but give it my best and find that my linguistic foibles are tolerated and the French are pleased when I ask them to abandon English as I want to struggle on in French. I get a real buzz from the ability to communicate and not from the mastery of the grammar. Apparently I speak French with an American accent.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

I suppose it's easy to think English is "obvious" if it's your first language, but I wouldn't exactly describe it as the most logical language in history.

Btw, it should be "cannot", not "can not"!

Stu

Probably/maybe; seems it can be either (and canot has also been used in the past). For me "cannot" does not look correct, but I am unable to change it in my mind, I'm dyslexic (nothing major, just enough to cause fun with some things, and the rest of the time leave the world guessing at what I mean or thinking I'm odd). 2 short words are easier for me to get the correct meaning than 1 longer word that my mind will read as "can" when it is "cannot". Can't explain it easily (something else you will often see me saying).

 

[snorri]

Ahhh, but when your first language is English, you don't need to learn any others.

Does that smiley mean you believe the statement above? I hope not.

 

[SatNavSaysStraightOn]

Does that smiley mean you believe the statement above? I hope not.

the avatar has his head in a bucket - means he has to yell louder if he is not understood!

 

[Longshot]

Does that smiley mean you believe the statement above? I hope not.

 

[snorri]

Yes. However the BBC some years ago decided that the Himalayas should be pronounced Him-are-lee-as. They stuck with it for several years before returning to the more common pronunciation.

The BBC has form as far as sticking an R in where it doesn't belong.

 

[Cyclist33]

Oh dear. It's so dangerous to 'correct' a perceived error in a spelling and grammar thread without checking the validity of your assertions.

'Cannot' and 'can not' are both valid. If Oxford University Press can't get it right no-one can.

This is a cycling forum littered with typos, misspellings and grammatical errors. I've learned to live with them.

It's better to bite your tongue and let others display their lack of mastery of the English than to broadcast your own .

You'll note that I said "should" and not "must". Without taking on the OUP single-handed, it seems self-evident to me that "cannot" doesn't mean the same as "can not", but as I've said elsewhere, the language is cognitive and evolving in nature so I do accept this.

In terms of mastery, again I've said earlier that we were all taught in different ways and often there isn't a right and wrong way, just different. I do find these types of discussion fascinating, in fact more interesting than talking about bikes, so you'll just have to accept the odd cock-up I'm afraid!

Stu

 

[Cyclist33]

Probably/maybe; seems it can be either (and canot has also been used in the past). For me "cannot" does not look correct, but I am unable to change it in my mind, I'm dyslexic (nothing major, just enough to cause fun with some things, and the rest of the time leave the world guessing at what I mean or thinking I'm odd). 2 short words are easier for me to get the correct meaning than 1 longer word that my mind will read as "can" when it is "cannot". Can't explain it easily (something else you will often see me saying).

Right on. One of my workmates is dyslexic and he tells me that because of this he always makes a special effort with his writing, not just using a spellchecker but checking it himself and not just for spelling. He won't send an email or letter etc without being reasonably sure it's in good order.

His written work is, perhaps not surprisingly, better than almost anyone's. I like this about him. Rather than hide behind his limitations, he challenged himself to understand and surpass them. It sounds like you do the same.

Stu

 

[Large]

I find it irritating when people use "big" words when plain English can be used easily instead. There is another message board I read that has many contributors who always seem to be out to belittle others with their use of poncey language.

Back to spoken English, my pet peeve is when pepole say "yeah?" as if they are checking you understand what they just said, yeah?

I don't know why I get so precious about such things; I'm not even English.