Energy bill increases

[Fab Foodie]

Been following this thread with interest.

On the cooking thing, the general view on t'internet is a gas oven is cheaper to run than a lecky one and a gas hob cheaper than a lecky one too, though I'd love to see specifically how the numbers are calculated. Our new house has 2 electric ovens :-(
Also interested how one poster manages to get crispy chicken skin from a regular pressure cooker!

Of course changing what we eat and which appliances are used to cook with can make a notable difference to costs. We have a Ninja Foodie multi cooker pot thing (Pressure/Slow/Sautee, Bake/Roast Air-Fry etc), and we do almost everything we would use the oven and (Induction) hob for. It's small so has low thermal mass, and better insulation than a regular oven. We also have a Remoska and that again can do a lot of different cooked products with very low energy consumption.

I would also like to know whether boiling a volume of water in a kettle for sink washing-up is (in general) cheaper than running the boiler and warming the pipes to get the same volume of water at the same temp at the sink. Running the boiler also consumes more water to wash the dishes.

Like others I have started to turn-off laptop and all my office stuff at night when I used to leave it dozing. We do as much washing/diswasher etc. while we have sun on the solar - every little helps. We are in a way better situation than very many people, but that doesn't mean we are not economising where possible, the price of all the essentials is rising and at our age and life of toil we thought life was going to get better not harder.

I had been planning to work 4 days a week from start of 2023 as a prelude to slowing down toward retirement, spending more time in the camper and indulging in hobbies (learning woodworking) etc. but the current situation has put that on hold, gonna stay a full time wage slave a little longer to see where the costs settle and put a bit more in the pension-pot. We'll still be using the camper to get away at weekends, but staying much more local than before.
Furthermore, with 3 kids and 2 grandchildren, some reserves might be useful if they struggle too.

'Planning' for retirement seems to have gone tits-up in an evermore uncertain world, but then again, there are going to be a lot more people in very horrible situations this winter.
Good ideas abound, it's changing our lifestyles to adapt that's hard....

 

[fossyant]

It is changing what you do. We've managed, for the last two weeks, to be consuming 12 KWh a day on average in leccy, that's down from the 20 we have been doing, and vastly reduced from spring. Air fryer and slow cooker in regular use. We have used the oven, baked some apple pies as our 'tree' is now just an apple tree - used to be an apple pie tree when my neighbour was alive (she'd pick most of our apples and then bake us pies).

Being in the office more has reduced costs, although there is at least one of us in 3 days a week.

 

[mjr]

I would also like to know whether boiling a volume of water in a kettle for sink washing-up is (in general) cheaper than running the boiler and warming the pipes to get the same volume of water at the same temp at the sink. Running the boiler also consumes more water to wash the dishes.

It depends. If you have a hot water storage tank, it's probably cheaper to use the kettle to add to not-hot-enough tank water for washing-up instead of boost the tank back up, unless you will use more hot water after. Heating a kettle will be maybe 2p/litre at the mo, while it's 20-40p to bring the 170litre tank back up (depending how low it went).

Combi boiler I think will normally be cheaper than a kettle if it is near the sink and pipes are insulated (and are copper that warms very quickly).

 

[PaulSB]

I would also like to know whether boiling a volume of water in a kettle for sink washing-up is (in general) cheaper than running the boiler and warming the pipes to get the same volume of water at the same temp at the sink. Running the boiler also consumes more water to wash the dishes.

I conducted a very unscientific experiment a few weeks ago after I read it is cheaper to boil a kettle when one needs a saucepan of water than to heat it on the gas hob. I also addressed a very wasteful habit of mine that when preparing food and cooking I like to have a washing up bowl of hand hot soapy water to rinse my hands, knives, etc. while cooking. So.......... the kettle holds 1.7 litres which by coincidence is enough to fill one of our saucepans to cook spaghetti or similar. The washing up bowl holds 14 litres. Water used is cold from the tap.

Kettle to boil 1.7 L = 4 minutes 10 seconds
Gas hob to boil pan = 8 minutes 25 seconds

I now boil a kettle when I want a pan of boiling water

The washing up bowl! Typically I would fill and empty this twice from our combi-boiler which is about 4 feet from the sink. I was using 28 litres of water plus about 12 litres run down the sink! 40 litres in total

If I put a kettle full of boiling water in the washing up bowl I have to add 3 litres of cold to get the temperature down to hand hot. So I have 4.7 litres of hot soapy water. If I run hot water from the combi boiler it takes 55 seconds to give me the same quantity of hot water. So the combi seems the clear winner in time taken to heat the water BUT before the water from the combi gets to hand hot I have to run 6 litres of warm water down the sink!!!!!!! Saving energy while wasting water.

What I now do is fill the washing up boil to +/-25% twice during cooking. The result for hands, knives etc. is the same but I've used +/- 8 litres hot water which is energy efficient and although I waste +/- 12 litres of water it's less than I previously did. This means I've used far less energy and overall cut the water used by 50%.

Hope you can follow that.

 

[cougie uk]

I conducted a very unscientific experiment a few weeks ago after I read it is cheaper to boil a kettle when one needs a saucepan of water than to heat it on the gas hob. I also addressed a very wasteful habit of mine that when preparing food and cooking I like to have a washing up bowl of hand hot soapy water to rinse my hands, knives, etc. while cooking. So.......... the kettle holds 1.7 litres which by coincidence is enough to fill one of our saucepans to cook spaghetti or similar. The washing up bowl holds 14 litres. Water used is cold from the tap.

Kettle to boil 1.7 L = 4 minutes 10 seconds
Gas hob to boil pan = 8 minutes 25 seconds

I now boil a kettle when I want a pan of boiling water

The washing up bowl! Typically I would fill and empty this twice from our combi-boiler which is about 4 feet from the sink. I was using 28 litres of water plus about 12 litres run down the sink! 40 litres in total

If I put a kettle full of boiling water in the washing up bowl I have to add 3 litres of cold to get the temperature down to hand hot. So I have 4.7 litres of hot soapy water. If I run hot water from the combi boiler it takes 55 seconds to give me the same quantity of hot water. So the combi seems the clear winner in time taken to heat the water BUT before the water from the combi gets to hand hot I have to run 6 litres of warm water down the sink!!!!!!! Saving energy while wasting water.

What I now do is fill the washing up boil to +/-25% twice during cooking. The result for hands, knives etc. is the same but I've used +/- 8 litres hot water which is energy efficient and although I waste +/- 12 litres of water it's less than I previously did. This means I've used far less energy and overall cut the water used by 50%.

Hope you can follow that.

Interesting but I believe a dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing? Assuming it's well stacked and full.

 

[mjr]

I have to run 6 litres of warm water down the sink!!!!!!! Saving energy while wasting water.

Why? Save it and use it to water plants or whatever!

And on the times to boil: how much energy per minute are kettle and hob using? That seems vital.

 

[PaulSB]

Interesting but I believe a dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing? Assuming it's well stacked and full.

Oh yes, agreed, we use a dishwasher but only when it's full. The sort of washing up I'm talking about is perhaps to wash hands after chopping onions, slicing fish, tossing a salad, rinsing a pan, wiping down surfaces or to wash my kitchen knives which I don't like to put in the dishwasher.

My wife says I'm anal but I've always stacked the dishwasher properly and only wash when it's full and in eco mode.

 

[mjr]

Interesting but I believe a dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing? Assuming it's well stacked and full.

In operation, marginally, but it takes a loooong time to recover the energy cost of manufacturing and transporting the unitasker.

 

[cougie uk]

Listening to More or Less on R4 this week they were talking about energy price increases.
The average gas price is doubled but electric just increased by 37%.

I think I'll be taping off the gas hob ! Microwave everything family !

 

[fossyant]

I conducted a very unscientific experiment a few weeks ago after I read it is cheaper to boil a kettle when one needs a saucepan of water than to heat it on the gas hob. I also addressed a very wasteful habit of mine that when preparing food and cooking I like to have a washing up bowl of hand hot soapy water to rinse my hands, knives, etc. while cooking. So.......... the kettle holds 1.7 litres which by coincidence is enough to fill one of our saucepans to cook spaghetti or similar. The washing up bowl holds 14 litres. Water used is cold from the tap.

Kettle to boil 1.7 L = 4 minutes 10 seconds
Gas hob to boil pan = 8 minutes 25 seconds

I now boil a kettle when I want a pan of boiling water

The washing up bowl! Typically I would fill and empty this twice from our combi-boiler which is about 4 feet from the sink. I was using 28 litres of water plus about 12 litres run down the sink! 40 litres in total

If I put a kettle full of boiling water in the washing up bowl I have to add 3 litres of cold to get the temperature down to hand hot. So I have 4.7 litres of hot soapy water. If I run hot water from the combi boiler it takes 55 seconds to give me the same quantity of hot water. So the combi seems the clear winner in time taken to heat the water BUT before the water from the combi gets to hand hot I have to run 6 litres of warm water down the sink!!!!!!! Saving energy while wasting water.

What I now do is fill the washing up boil to +/-25% twice during cooking. The result for hands, knives etc. is the same but I've used +/- 8 litres hot water which is energy efficient and although I waste +/- 12 litres of water it's less than I previously did. This means I've used far less energy and overall cut the water used by 50%.

Hope you can follow that.

The thing is, and I keep saying this to my colleagues, we should not need to do this in a so called 'rich' country. The good side is, we're all cutting back on waste power.

 

[fossyant]

Listening to More or Less on R4 this week they were talking about energy price increases.
The average gas price is doubled but electric just increased by 37%.

I think I'll be taping off the gas hob ! Microwave everything family !

Gas hobs are really efficient - we use ours all the time and my gas at the moment is £15 month max including hot water heating. Average over a year was $45 a month, now near £100.

Electric has moved from 19p to 27p to probably 32p from October - that's a fair amount in a modern property. Depends on your house - gas use is much lower than average in our house as it's pretty good thermally, the issue is all the electric gubbins for 4 adults, and stuff that's a luxury, and being flipping lazy for sake of speed etc.

I can afford it, but bloody hell we've been lighting £50 notes... we've stopped it. It's people like my neice that can't take that hit - two young kids, lots of washing, pre-pay meters, in-efficient council property... really hard,

 

[PaulSB]

Why? Save it and use it to water plants or whatever!

And on the times to boil: how much energy per minute are kettle and hob using? That seems vital.

Get the point but I don't have anyway of storing 12 litres of water a day! As for times to boil and energy used I agree but I have no way of calculating this. From what I've read opinion seems to strongly lean towards the kettle being more efficient. The kettle plate is rated as 2500-3000W which I believe is the consumption if used for one hour. So at a minimum of 2500 (2.5kWh) for one hour the kettle is costing 33.5p/kWh x 2.5 = 83.75p so the four minutes to boil the kettle is 83.75/15 = 5.58p. Lets say 6p. I'm only doing this once a day at most!

Gas takes twice as long to boil the water but only costs 10.3p/kWh................................I give up!

 

[fossyant]

Get the point but I don't have anyway of storing 12 litres of water a day! As for times to boil and energy used I agree but I have no way of calculating this. From what I've read opinion seems to strongly lean towards the kettle being more efficient. The kettle plate is rated as 2500-3000W which I believe is the consumption if used for one hour. So at a minimum of 2500 (2.5kWh) for one hour the kettle is costing 33.5p/kWh x 2.5 = 83.75p so the four minutes to boil the kettle is 83.75/15 = 5.58p. Lets say 6p. I'm only doing this once a day at most!

Gas takes twice as long to boil the water but only costs 10.3p/kWh................................I give up!

Calculations are about right. Used to boil water in the kettle as it was faster/efficient than waiting over 10 mins for hob. No kettle at the minute as I electrocuted myself on it last week - will get another soon.... Proper right shock from the plastic 'off switch'.

 

[PaulSB]

The thing is, and I keep saying this to my colleagues, we should not need to do this in a so called 'rich' country. The good side is, we're all cutting back on waste power.

I would agree with you on both points and truly hope we remain as energy conscious if prices ever come down. I'm 68, the household is funded from pensions and other than returning to work there is no opportunity to increase income. I'm not returning to work. I can fund these increases but that doesn't mean I can afford them.

As for your point to your colleagues of course you are right. I will not turn this thread to areas which should be in NACA but I think it should now be abundantly clear to the majority this country has been mismanaged and badly governed for decades by both parties. If the country had been well governed this crisis would look somewhat different.

I'm sat here wearing a shirt, sweater, fleece and slippers. I'm perfectly warm and comfortable, sadly millions cannot say the same. We've decided to review when the CH goes on after November 8th when we return from a holiday. Till then it's staying off.

 

[fossyant]

I would agree with you on both points and truly hope we remain as energy conscious if prices ever come down. I'm 68, the household is funded from pensions and other than returning to work there is no opportunity to increase income. I'm not returning to work. I can fund these increases but that doesn't mean I can afford them.

As for your point to your colleagues of course you are right. I will not turn this thread to areas which should be in NACA but I think it should now be abundantly clear to the majority this country has been mismanaged and badly governed for decades by both parties. If the country had been well governed this crisis would look somewhat different.

I'm sat here wearing a shirt, sweater, fleece and slippers. I'm perfectly warm and comfortable, sadly millions cannot say the same. We've decided to review when the CH goes on after November 8th when we return from a holiday. Till then it's staying off.

I'm sat here in a thin cotton shirt and pants. I sleep on-top of the duvet - MrsF just put the winter duvet on. The house is still too warm. No heating on...