Electric bikes

[ufkacbln]

I have 2, one is a Christiania Trike which carries a mobility scooter, and the other my wife's Bionx powered Gekko. I also have responsibiloty for two others used by elderly relatives.

In all these cases they offer an extension of cycling that would othereise not be possible.

One elderly relative extended their cycling into their 80's after buying one.

 

[Chrisc]

I've been considering a Kalkhoff ebike for a number of years having seen a lot of them in the Netherlands where they massively outsell conventional bicycles nowadays. My thinking is that instead of replacing my commuting motorcycle with another I buy an ebike for year round use and save a few quid on VED, fuel and insurance and get a bit more gentle exercise into the bargain. The e means I can wear normal office togs and arrive looking presentable rather than as a dishevelled gently steaming heap and it also means that my 9 mile uphill trip home is easy even after a long day at the coal face. By equating it to a motorcycle purchase I find I can easily justify spending £2.5k on one. :-)

I retain the right to use my road bike during nice weather and at weekends tho.

I test rode a Kalkhoff a couple of years back and it was so easy to use and my local hills were effortlessly despatched, on one test climb I passed a group coming up as I descended to begin and blitzed them on the way back up, bit like Harry Enfield's jockey with his cup of tea except I didn't quite know what to say or where to look as I wafted by at speed ... slightly embarrassing.
I recorded the ride on my Garmin and it synced to Strava before I had chance to get in and make the ride private, I never saw so many hill climb KOM's on my page. :-) Don't worry, I made it private to set the record straight.

 

[Pale Rider]

I've been considering a Kalkhoff ebike for a number of years having seen a lot of them in the Netherlands where they massively outsell conventional bicycles nowadays. My thinking is that instead of replacing my commuting motorcycle with another I buy an ebike for year round use and save a few quid on VED, fuel and insurance and get a bit more gentle exercise into the bargain. The e means I can wear normal office togs and arrive looking presentable rather than as a dishevelled gently steaming heap and it also means that my 9 mile uphill trip home is easy even after a long day at the coal face. By equating it to a motorcycle purchase I find I can easily justify spending £2.5k on one. :-)

I retain the right to use my road bike during nice weather and at weekends tho.

I test rode a Kalkhoff a couple of years back and it was so easy to use and my local hills were effortlessly despatched, on one test climb I passed a group coming up as I descended to begin and blitzed them on the way back up, bit like Harry Enfield's jockey with his cup of tea except I didn't quite know what to say or where to look as I wafted by at speed ... slightly embarrassing.
I recorded the ride on my Garmin and it synced to Strava before I had chance to get in and make the ride private, I never saw so many hill climb KOM's on my page. :-) Don't worry, I made it private to set the record straight.

Your plan should work.

Some Kalkhoffs - in common with other German and Dutch roadsters - have hydraulic rim brakes.

I'm sure they work OK, but hydraulic discs seem to me to be simpler and a better bet for a commuter.

A few Kalkhoff ebikes now have discs, so you could probably find one to suit.

Another unusual feature of Kalkhoff ebikes is they use Dunlop/Woods valves.

I can't get on with those, but easy enough to change to Schrader or Presta tubes.

 

[raleighnut]

I should add that the kits we have at home have 6 bolt disc fittings on them as well, so they will fit a disc brake equipped bike.

I have used 2 of the kits imported/branded by Cyclotricity, one from the importer but I found the aftersales to be a bit crap so the second one came from a retailer (at the same price though) these were the firm I got the second one from
http://www.electric-bike-conversions.co.uk/
I went for the pannier battery option and left off the assist computer/handlebar unit so mine is throttle operation only but the wiring loom is there so I could retro-fit it if I wanted but it means that I can choose not to use up the battery power when I am in town and just pootling along at walking speed but still pedalling. (The front wheel simply 'freewheels' when the motor is not powered or the bike/trike is travelling faster than the legally powered speed and is actually pretty 'free running' when riding without power assist. i.e. There is no drag when not in use

 

[Chrisc]

Your plan should work.

Some Kalkhoffs - in common with other German and Dutch roadsters - have hydraulic rim brakes.

I'm sure they work OK, but hydraulic discs seem to me to be simpler and a better bet for a commuter.

A few Kalkhoff ebikes now have discs, so you could probably find one to suit.

Another unusual feature of Kalkhoff ebikes is they use Dunlop/Woods valves.

I can't get on with those, but easy enough to change to Schrader or Presta tubes.

Those magura hydraulic rim brakes are excellent, I was skeptical but the feel and power are amazing. Discs even better yes.
I'm waiting on the perfect commuter low maintenance combo of alfine gearbox, gates belt drive and hydraulic disc brakes before I jump in.
They already make it but it's the 350w version so you're into insurance and registration plate to use it on the road legally. Kinda negates the benefits of losing the motorbike although it would be a treat to see car drivers reactions to a pushbike doing 28mph up the hills rounds here :-)

As for Woods valves, I've had a Batavus city bike for years so am used to the things. I don't like them but I'm used to them. :-)

 

[Oldbloke]

Thanks for the link @raleighnut

 

[Pale Rider]

Those magura hydraulic rim brakes are excellent, I was skeptical but the feel and power are amazing. Discs even better yes.
I'm waiting on the perfect commuter low maintenance combo of alfine gearbox, gates belt drive and hydraulic disc brakes before I jump in.
They already make it but it's the 350w version so you're into insurance and registration plate to use it on the road legally. Kinda negates the benefits of losing the motorbike although it would be a treat to see car drivers reactions to a pushbike doing 28mph up the hills rounds here :-)

As for Woods valves, I've had a Batavus city bike for years so am used to the things. I don't like them but I'm used to them. :-)

I have an Alfine 11 on the Rose bike pictured upthread.

Without wishing to put a fly in your ointment, I'm bound to say it broke after 18 months.

Madison/Shimano replaced it under warranty - I told them how old it was and where it had been used.

My Rose has a Bosch crank drive, similar in power to the Impulse 2 on the Kalkhoff.

Bosch detune the maximum assistance to 200% instead of 250% because of the hub gear.

Yet it still broke.

The new hub is working OK, but I have had a couple of crunchy changes.

I'm now a bit nervous of the hub, they are £400+ and I doubt Madison would fix it again.

Based on that experience, I would suggest you go for a derailleur crank drive bike.

Pity, because the hub has many advantages for commuting.

 

[Chrisc]

I have an Alfine 11 on the Rose bike pictured upthread.

Without wishing to put a fly in your ointment, I'm bound to say it broke after 18 months.

Madison/Shimano replaced it under warranty - I told them how old it was and where it had been used.

My Rose has a Bosch crank drive, similar in power to the Impulse 2 on the Kalkhoff.

Bosch detune the maximum assistance to 200% instead of 250% because of the hub gear.

Yet it still broke.

The new hub is working OK, but I have had a couple of crunchy changes.

I'm now a bit nervous of the hub, they are £400+ and I doubt Madison would fix it again.

Based on that experience, I would suggest you go for a derailleur crank drive bike.

Pity, because the hub has many advantages for commuting.

Hmmm, well I'd rather have that fly in there sooner than later so thanks! Never had a moments trouble with my old Nexus 7 speed but then again it's not under the same stress as an ebike is it, and I suspect a little more agriculturally engineered than the alfine. Rohloff then! :-0
The 7/8 speed should actually be plenty with a powered bike tho shouldn't it and lets face it, the maintenance of a derailleur isn't that difficult is it. I'd just rather it not be an issue. I'll happily spend time cleaning my road bike after each trip but a daily commuter is far more open to being left for a week without being looked over. Or two weeks ...

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Locked my steed up next to one of these a few days ago:

http://www.tesco.com/direct/hopper-shopper-electric-bike-blue/761-4756.prd

Quite funky.

We have one park up at work occasionally, I've just about seen it enough for it not to be novel now.

As with many others, I could see it as a way to increase riding longevity in the future, but wouldn't buy one just to make my life easier at the moment as the exercise aspect of riding a bike is important to me. Although there's a chance that if powered two wheelers was my only option I'd be looking at rekindling my love of motorbikes rather than adding motors to my bicycling. Not sure.

I had a friend who got one, probably the best part of a decade ago, through the earlier version of C2W (when prices weren't capped and the bike cost you a tenner at the end of it all) so that he could commute from SE London to Edenbridge (as there is a very big hill in the way) rather than driving. Worked very well for him for about 18 months, then started to get gremlins (mainly batter life if I recall correctly) which I don't think ever found fixes. So he ended up going back to commuting by car.

 

[Pale Rider]

Hmmm, well I'd rather have that fly in there sooner than later so thanks! Never had a moments trouble with my old Nexus 7 speed but then again it's not under the same stress as an ebike is it, and I suspect a little more agriculturally engineered than the alfine. Rohloff then! :-0
The 7/8 speed should actually be plenty with a powered bike tho shouldn't it and lets face it, the maintenance of a derailleur isn't that difficult is it. I'd just rather it not be an issue. I'll happily spend time cleaning my road bike after each trip but a daily commuter is far more open to being left for a week without being looked over. Or two weeks ...

I agree 7/8 speed would be fine and it does appear to be bombproof, which the 11 is not.

If money is no object, you could get a Reise and Muller ebike with a Rohloff hub.

I've tried a mate's full sus Delite tourer.

In riding, the hub is just that, a hub, but I suspect it would be 100 per cent reliable.

My mate has put about 6,000miles on his with no bother.

That would mean the Bosch crank drive, but if you liked the Impulse, I think you'd be fine with the Bosch.

Another thing you are certainly right about is to be looking at a Kalkhoff or similar quality ebike.

Any of the cheaper Chinese ebikes would fall apart in months, if not weeks, on a commute.

Here's a link to R&M, some of them look a bit different, but they are quality bicycles, and the serviceable components are standard.

Properly engineered, too, my mate's Delite was rock solid on a twisty 35mph descent.

http://en.r-m.de/e-bikes/

 

[Chrisc]

I agree 7/8 speed would be fine and it does appear to be bombproof, which the 11 is not.

If money is no object, you could get a Reise and Muller ebike with a Rohloff hub.

I've tried a mate's full sus Delite tourer.

In riding, the hub is just that, a hub, but I suspect it would be 100 per cent reliable.

My mate has put about 6,000miles on his with no bother.

That would mean the Bosch crank drive, but if you liked the Impulse, I think you'd be fine with the Bosch.

Another thing you are certainly right about is to be looking at a Kalkhoff or similar quality ebike.

Any of the cheaper Chinese ebikes would fall apart in months, if not weeks, on a commute.

Here's a link to R&M, some of them look a bit different, but they are quality bicycles, and the serviceable components are standard.

Properly engineered, too, my mate's Delite was rock solid on a twisty 35mph descent.

http://en.r-m.de/e-bikes/

Thanks for that link, I'd already decided Kalkhoff was the start point. A friend bought one of their city bikes as a result of seeing me looking over the ebikes and he's ridden it a couple of years commuting now and it looks like new. Well built things. I hadn't seen R&M and they do look interesting. Another option for me there. :-)

Agreed on the Chinese stuff. Might last a year for the occasional user but for a commute 5 days a week year round it's not going to survive long.

 

[F70100]

I test rode a Kalkhoff a couple of years back and it was so easy to use and my local hills were effortlessly despatched, on one test climb I passed a group coming up as I descended to begin and blitzed them on the way back up, bit like Harry Enfield's jockey with his cup of tea except I didn't quite know what to say or where to look as I wafted by at speed ... slightly embarrassing.

Mrs F70100 bought a Kalkhoff. She laughs like a drain when she wafts past me as I'm slogging up a hill...

 

[Chrisc]

Mrs F70100 bought a Kalkhoff. She laughs like a drain when she wafts past me as I'm slogging up a hill...

Brilliant! :-)

 

[Pale Rider]

Thanks for that link, I'd already decided Kalkhoff was the start point. A friend bought one of their city bikes as a result of seeing me looking over the ebikes and he's ridden it a couple of years commuting now and it looks like new. Well built things. I hadn't seen R&M and they do look interesting. Another option for me there. :-)

Agreed on the Chinese stuff. Might last a year for the occasional user but for a commute 5 days a week year round it's not going to survive long.

A safe - and cheapish - choice would be a KTM Macina 8.

Nice, straightforward Bosch bike with the sturdy Nexus 8 hub.

KTM also have other crank drive/hub bikes, including the new Shimano Steps which is called Di2, so I'm guessing there's some electronic shifting going on there.

Fli, the distributor, is not far from you.

They don't usually deal direct with the public, but the guy who runs it, Col, is a roadie who sometimes commutes by ebike.

You would have a bit in common, so if you could get hold of him it could help your decision making.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co....cross-8/ktm_bicycles_ebikes_bosch-drive?pp=12

FLi Distribution Ltd.
First Floor Offices
102 Fenay Bridge Road
Fenay Bridge
Huddersfield, HD8 0AY GB
T: 01457 873 923

 

[Chrisc]

A safe - and cheapish - choice would be a KTM Macina 8.

Nice, straightforward Bosch bike with the sturdy Nexus 8 hub.

KTM also have other crank drive/hub bikes, including the new Shimano Steps which is called Di2, so I'm guessing there's some electronic shifting going on there.

Fli, the distributor, is not far from you.

They don't usually deal direct with the public, but the guy who runs it, Col, is a roadie who sometimes commutes by ebike.

You would have a bit in common, so if you could get hold of him it could help your decision making.

http://www.shop.flidistribution.co....cross-8/ktm_bicycles_ebikes_bosch-drive?pp=12

FLi Distribution Ltd.
First Floor Offices
102 Fenay Bridge Road
Fenay Bridge
Huddersfield, HD8 0AY GB
T: 01457 873 923

Interesting again! And very close by.
Thanks for the info. It seems there are quite a few options now based around the Bosch system.