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Scotchlovingcylist
Formerly known as Speedfreak
I agree to an extent however at present they are illegal to use on roads/paths unless used as part of hire schemes in certain cities. With their ever increasing popularity I feel the powers at be need to catch up in that respect.
There will always be users of all modes of transport who don't abuse by the rules of the road hence the need for certain laws. A clear definition of how those apply to e scooters with a raised awareness may aid in safer use of them rather than taking the illegal approach that currently stands as it does not seem, as you rightly say, to be deterring people using them safely.
classic33
Leg End Member
For starters they're road vehicles(Those that are in the hire schemes). Use them where they're supposed to be used, or not at all.
They appear to be used more as an excuse for not walking, on the footpaths, than as a viable, alternate, means of transport.
swee'pea99
Legendary Member
I disagree. The problem is our legislators are reactive at best, never saw this coming, and have consequently made no moves to accommodate it.
...is typical of the mindset of those who subscribe to a kind of Baden Powell take on humanity. All these people should stop being so damn lazy, and get on a bicycle. Do 'em some good. Harrumph. And many etcs. Thing is, the bone idle will always be with us, and they have to get around too. Far better that they do it without the aid of a ton & a half of steel and a pollution-belching engine.
Tossers will toss. The really major difference with doing it on an electric scooter rather than a motor vehicle is that, as with bikes, the rider is far more likely to damage him/herself rather than someone else. On balance, preferable, I'd say.
And yes, apparently a 14 year old girl was killed riding one. Then again, five people die on the roads every day. There is pretty much no form of transport that's entirely safe.
We have to get around somehow. Given the alternatives of internal combustion and musclepower + moral fibre, it seems very clear to me that electric scooters should be encouraged, not baulked at every turn. Some kind of registration + moves toward presumed liability and we could just edge our way toward a more sustainable model for urban transport. If we - which is to say 'they' - could try to develop more foresight than the average first time scoooter-muppet.
Scotchlovingcylist
Formerly known as Speedfreak
Then the law could be updated to accommodate them on the roads or restrict them to a certain speed to allow for use on cycle paths, such as e bikes perhaps?
Those people you assume are using them as an excuse to not walk, where do you suppose they were walking to? They have to be travelling somewhere and if an e scooter makes that more viable or extends their options for travelling further that can't be a bad thing surely? Again only if properly used which I appreciate at the moment the law doesn't allow which is my point.
People can walk to travel or for recreation
People drive to travel or for fun
Not every cyclist is a commuter, lots ride just for recreation, a bike is also a road vehicle and the use of falls within the law.
Who are we to judge why they are using them, if it suits them rather than walking? Which is why I feel the law should be updated for the use of them once more information is received through the trials
T4tomo
Legendary Member
what would be your solution then? Treat them like cycles and put them on the roads and shared us paths etc?
clearly burying the legislative head in the sand and saying they are illegal except on private land is no solution at all.
KnittyNorah
Über Member
- Location
- The Frozen North (of England)
The law should be updated so as to give the blind, severely visually-impaired and those who need to use wheelchairs and other mobility aids, absolute priority on all footways.
Anything blocking clear passage along said footway to the extent that an electric wheelchair, or a 6 ft person with a guide dog alongside, cannot pass through safely and easily, can and should be removed promptly and without warning by anyone who happens to be passing, with the full encouragement and approval of the law.
Having been severely visually-impaired for several years, I will be the first to help in upholding this law. I will happily report cars blocking the pavement, physically hoik the pile of bikes outside the co-cop into the road or the carpark - or put my big walking boots on and walk over them! - and toss the e-scooters I've seen lying about, into the nearest river, canal, lake or sea. Last year I trimmed back a bush which forced people over 3ft high to walk in the road, on a corner where a residential street opens onto a busy main road. I tossed the branches over into wall onto the bush-owners land. No-one said a word even though many people saw me doing it.
Anything blocking clear passage along said footway to the extent that an electric wheelchair, or a 6 ft person with a guide dog alongside, cannot pass through safely and easily, can and should be removed promptly and without warning by anyone who happens to be passing, with the full encouragement and approval of the law.
Having been severely visually-impaired for several years, I will be the first to help in upholding this law. I will happily report cars blocking the pavement, physically hoik the pile of bikes outside the co-cop into the road or the carpark - or put my big walking boots on and walk over them! - and toss the e-scooters I've seen lying about, into the nearest river, canal, lake or sea. Last year I trimmed back a bush which forced people over 3ft high to walk in the road, on a corner where a residential street opens onto a busy main road. I tossed the branches over into wall onto the bush-owners land. No-one said a word even though many people saw me doing it.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
How should the law change? I think the problem is enforcement.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
"Illegal" is a legal status, and precedent seems clear that they are currently electric motorbikes: Drink drive arrest for Thetford E-scooter rider | Eastern Daily Press – https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/drink-drive-arrest-for-escooter-rider-8135122
classic33
Leg End Member
Link is from July last year, 2021.
For their action in going the wrong way down a one way street(See previous post mentioning going against the traffic flow, and being over the limit. No mention of if it was involved in one of the trials or private. No mention of the vehicle being seized either, so presumably it was, on the road legally being used in an illegal manner.
Outside of the trials, they have no legal status on UK roads.* You can't MOT, insure or get a seperate last licence to cover it's legal use on the road. Don't believe me, try and come back with the results.
*That's the answer as given by the MIB, who have access to better legal teams than you or me.
Edited to ask you
If, as you claim, they are electric motorbikes, why aren't helmets being worn by the users? Motorbike riders are legally required to wear one.
Last edited:
matticus
Guru
Have they actually answered the key question here; will they help you recover losses from a collision with an e-scooter? And/or e-bike?
[I'm guessing not ... ]
classic33
Leg End Member
The answer was that private electric scooters wouldn't be covered by either scheme they operate. Uninsured Driver or Untraceable Driver.
Those involved in the current trials have had to be covered by those operating the trials.
KnittyNorah
Über Member
- Location
- The Frozen North (of England)
The problem is not merely enforcement; it is the overt acceptance - with quasi-official 'permissions' being granted by eg councils - for all types of 'legal' obstruction on footways. Signs, adverts, displays, outside seating ... it has all got worse and worse in the past couple of years. Understandably so but it needs to STOP and stop now.
When the footway is littered with all sorts of deliberate and quasi-legal non-negotiable barriers to straightforward unimpeded progress other than by the physically-nimble and clear-of-vision, it comes as no surprise that additional ones - the 'dropped' scooters, car-parking, overgrown plants and their ilk - are ignore, to the detriment of a significant section of the population. Access to public outdoor built space must surely be available for all, not merely for those who can both see to route-find through, and are physically able to safely step up, down and around, any obstructions.
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
matticus
Guru
Makes sense. Cheers.
