Dutchman cleared of 'manslaughter by furious or wanton driving' in Manchester .

[PK99]

0.2% of people are born deaf, whilst 15% of people over 18 have hearing loss. The percentage of people with hearing issues who can compensate it pretty low.

There is a big difference between deaf and hearing loss
(I am on day two of my single-side NHS hearing aid. LHS is age normal profile for 65. RHS is typical profile of 95-year-old)

The discussion was about deaf people compensating. The science shows that born deaf and those who become deaf both develop sensory compensation, though undoubtedly to different degrees. In the same way that the brains of Cab drivers doing the Knowledge change.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/london-taxi-memory/

 

[Mike_P]

Never worn earphones or headphones cycling but cannot see what difference that makes when all too common wind noise cancels out vehicular noise etc. Re cyclists cannot be done for speeding that is why the charge was furious or wanton , if a cyclist is considered to be going too fast for the conditions, they can be charged with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a criminal offence under the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948) Source;https://www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk...the-road-traffic-laws-that-apply-to-cyclists/
So obeying speed limits where possible is advisable.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Never worn earphones or headphones cycling but cannot see what difference that makes when all too common wind noise cancels out vehicular noise etc. Re cyclists cannot be done for speeding that is why the charge was furious or wanton , if a cyclist is considered to be going too fast for the conditions, they can be charged with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a criminal offence under the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948) Source;https://www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk...the-road-traffic-laws-that-apply-to-cyclists/
So obeying speed limits where possible is advisable.

That offence only applies where the riding results in bodily harm to a person. It couldn’t be used for a cyclist merely exceeding a posted speed limit for motor vehicles.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/35

 

[Mike_P]

True as the case the subject of the thread shows the rider was well within the speed limit which assisted his case positively. If however he had been exceeding the limit the outcome may have been different. No one normally speeding in/on whatever vehicle does so with expectation of hitting someone but if it happens then matters can change for the worse.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

How can he exceed a limit that doesn't exist?

 

[Jameshow]

I don't understand why cyclists should be exempt from speed limits doing 25mph on a bike past a school 20mph is pretty dangerous imho.

Or coming down a hill at 40mph and carry it into a village 30moh section.

If a speeding car is a gun then a bike is a knife stealthy and dangerous when miss used.

 

[BoldonLad]

Ear phones are distracting ?
So anyone in a car with the windows wound up and the radio on is just as distracted?

Depends on the volume of the radio/earphones, IMHO. When a car overtakes me, with ‘music’ so loud that car hear it on the outside of the car, I wonder, “could the driver, for example, hear an emergency vehicle siren”, above the racket inside the car.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I don't understand why cyclists should be exempt from speed limits doing 25mph on a bike past a school 20mph is pretty dangerous imho.

Or coming down a hill at 40mph and carry it into a village 30moh section.

If a speeding car is a gun then a bike is a knife stealthy and dangerous when miss used.

Although I agree with you, it's a difficult one, as you then get into the realms of mandating speedometers on bicycles, at which point do you decide they have to be fitted, on the age of the rider, the age of the bike, all new bike must be fitted with them, all existing bikes must be retro fitted with them. I understand why potentially it wasn't included 100 years ago as we didn't have the technology, however we now do, so maybe the law ought to be changed.

Edit:- Or how & who will enforce it is another matter

 

[cougie uk]

Depends on the volume of the radio/earphones, IMHO. When a car overtakes me, with ‘music’ so loud that car hear it on the outside of the car, I wonder, “could the driver, for example, hear an emergency vehicle siren”, above the racket inside the car.

And clearly they can't. We've all seen cars oblivious to the emergency vehicle trying to get past ?

 

[Alex321]

Never worn earphones or headphones cycling but cannot see what difference that makes when all too common wind noise cancels out vehicular noise etc. Re cyclists cannot be done for speeding that is why the charge was furious or wanton , if a cyclist is considered to be going too fast for the conditions, they can be charged with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ which is a criminal offence under the Offences Against the Persons Act 1861 (amended by the Criminal Justice Act 1948) Source;https://www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk...the-road-traffic-laws-that-apply-to-cyclists/
So obeying speed limits where possible is advisable.

Much more likely in most cases that they would be done under section 28 (Dangerous Cycling) or 29 (Careless or inconsiderate cycling) of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

 

[Alex321]

I don't understand why cyclists should be exempt from speed limits doing 25mph on a bike past a school 20mph is pretty dangerous imho.

Or coming down a hill at 40mph and carry it into a village 30moh section.

If a speeding car is a gun then a bike is a knife stealthy and dangerous when miss used.

Well the law was written to only apply to "motor" vehicles.

I suspect at least part of the reasoning being that motor vehicles are required to have a speedometer (with some exceptions), while bicycles aren't, and most probably don't.

 

[Phil Fouracre]

As a complete aside re the difference between ‘headphones’ v in ear ‘speakers’. I’ve been using shokz bone headset for paragliding, but, have found them very intrusive in use, being under helmet. Gone for a basic speaker/mic on curly cord positioned appx 30cms from face and find it much less distracting. Nothing to do with cycling, but….

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I don't understand why cyclists should be exempt from speed limits doing 25mph on a bike past a school 20mph is pretty dangerous imho.

Physics

 

[icowden]

I don't understand why cyclists should be exempt from speed limits doing 25mph on a bike past a school 20mph is pretty dangerous imho.
Or coming down a hill at 40mph and carry it into a village 30moh section.
If a speeding car is a gun then a bike is a knife stealthy and dangerous when miss used.

They aren't. They can't be done for speeding however as it is not mandatory for a bike to have a calibrated speedometer - thus it is not reasonable to expect a cyclist to know how fast they are going. They can however be done for careless cycling, wanton cycling, dangerous cycling etc if their pace is not appropriate for the circumstance and depending on what has happened.

I'd have thought that with 99% of cyclists not wanting to fall / be knocked off / badly injured that it would be reasonably rare for someone to be cycling well over the speed limit for any period of time.

 

[Alex321]

They aren't. They can't be done for speeding however as it is not mandatory for a bike to have a calibrated speedometer - thus it is not reasonable to expect a cyclist to know how fast they are going. They can however be done for careless cycling, wanton cycling, dangerous cycling etc if their pace is not appropriate for the circumstance and depending on what has happened.

I'd have thought that with 99% of cyclists not wanting to fall / be knocked off / badly injured that it would be reasonably rare for someone to be cycling well over the speed limit for any period of time.

They *are* exempt from speed limits, because posted speed limits only apply to *motor* vehicles.

But the rest of what you say is, of course, absolutely correct.